Newsroom – I am continually in awe of …

Comment posted on More melt down in wind ‘industry’ as global giant Vestas hits serious debt burden by Malcolm Kirk

Newsroom – I am continually in awe of your ability to research and assimilate information and reissue it in such a clear and explicit manner.

Malcolm Kirk also commented

  • You have confirmed what I suggested above ie it may be that all sides can get something out of it. Been busy all day so have not actually read it in full but am happy to accept your summary. Cheers !
  • Have not had time to go through this in any detail but it is at least up to date – it maybe that all sides can get something out of it :-
    http://www.civitas.org.uk/economy/electricitycosts2012.pdf
  • Could you put a few £££ signs in your post Tim so that we can get an idea of the cost of upgrading the Grid over and above the £475 million per annum that wind farms are costing us at the moment. The amounts must be available on the net somewhere. Thanks.
  • Don’t totally agree there Karl – you and I and all the other ‘extremists’ have posted a lot of good/bad stuff on these forums over many months – I think ‘newsroom’ has been following it all, and as a professional journalist, has issued a clear resume above of current issues, and hopefully there will be more in the future. It’s the ease of reading that makes any article stand out.

Recent comments by Malcolm Kirk

  • Scottish Labour Leadership: the timeline is Murphy’s headache
    Glasgow blame Holyrood and the SNP
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/job-fears-as-glasgow-council-faces-cuts-in-excess-of-100m.25731432?utm_source=headlines&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=email%2Balert
  • Scotland heading to be a one-party state
    Robert -I bet agnes supports windfarms, small hydro schemes, solar panels.
  • Labour paralysis proves Lamont right
    I thought we won the Referendum because we wanted a United Kingdom. The Labour Party is a UK / British Political Party, and as with all political parties it is subdivided to each region and always has been. This is not an uncommon situation with a Leader retiring and a successor being sought and indeed if it wasn’t for the rantings of the SNP extremists it would be nothing more that. Let the democratic process we all voted NO for – begin. I personally agree with newsie’s view of the value of Holyrood debates – pathetic. Politics require great orators, characters, personalities, to lead and achieve a following – totally non existent now in Holyrood, in any Party.
    As to why the SNP gang are rubbishing Labour so vehemently on these pages – well its’s just sheer fear and terror. They are scared that a new Labour leader will regain the traditional labour vote and empty the SNP’s membership list and coffers.
  • Labour paralysis proves Lamont right
    I suggest you start the next two year cycle now.
  • Scotland heading to be a one-party state
    You last sentence sums up what newsie’s trying to say – an excess off zealots from the SNP

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28 Responses to Newsroom – I am continually in awe of …

  1. Sad for the folks that will again lose jobs. The cow for this company, seems to be running dry.
    Maybe they should take a look at the obvious alternative: community generation.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    • Beware the self appointed noise assessment “acousticians ” like…..

      THE HAYES MACKENZIE PARTNERSHIP (HMP)

      HMP are regularly hired by the Government of the day to report on turbine
      noise   They are the go-to YES MEN  for the turbine lobby and they base
      their findings  on the ETSU R 97 guidelines- SIXTEEN YEARS outdated, much
      ridiculed and hugely pro wind industry-biased when written . Guidelines meant
      to protect families from intrusive noise, that do no such thing. Guidelines
       that  their  own founding director co-authored-now used by the self same
       HMP – working for and making millions from those same wind industry
       companies who are RESPONSIBLE for that  health threatening noise. 

      They and others like them ignore the huge and ever growing weight of
       evidence 
       -that large electricity-generating wind turbines cause serious health
      problems. They do this by denying these problems, denigrating  the  writers
      and by making a collection of  wholly unsubstantiated and  contradictory
      claims.

      When WILL any of their own “move along no health issues here” reports actually
      have an input from some, ANY, qualified medical or epidemiological experts who
      would surely offer guidance on how all that technical acoustic data actually
      translates into human I’ll health.

      Study after study  emphasises  the need for such epidemiological and
      laboratory research by medical health professionals and acousticians concerned
      with public health and well-being. Not by a bunch of fully paid up members of
      the wind turbine lobby with no medical  input or expertise whatsoever.

      Bottom line if I have health issues Ill call on a doctor. If I want a PA
      system I’ll ask Hayes Mackenzie 

      In  the past HMP have outright tried to deny or downplay  the effect of wind
      turbine noise on nearby residents. Is this the same company who assured us all
      that low frequency noise is not a ‘significant problem’.

      Saying things like  ”Despite media hype, noise output from wind turbines is
      not particularly biased towards low frequency and there is no significant
      infrasound or vibration.”

      And worst of all…” ,infrasound,low frequency noise and vibration is not an
      issue for on-shore wind turbine sites.”
        Are they having a laugh?

      Numerous eminent doctors from all  round the world have reported various
      noise-related problems with wind turbines and many many peer reviewed
      scientists concur about the likely cause:  professor Møller,; professor
      Pedersen, Henrik, dr hanning, Steffen; Kloster Staunstsrup, Jan; and Sejer
      Pedersen, dr Alves-Pereira  and Professor Branco, Christian , dr Pierpoint
       Philips Rand Ambrose Swinbanks, dr Salt ,  dr McMurtry,  dr Nissenbaum
       dr kerin dr Isser dr Amanda Harry, and countless others say YOU LIE HAYES
      MACKENZIE

      Victims report  Annoyance,  stress and sleep disturbance together with a
      whole bunch of often interconnected illnesses collectively now called  VAD-
      vibro acoustic disease  WTS – wind turbine syndrome and VVVD- visceral
      vibratory vestibular disturbance. All these doctors, researchers and scientist
      call for more medical  studies  into the problem. The  turbine lobby shows
      no such willingness.

       As if THAT werent enough, this is the same company why were found out to
       have been complicit in the ‘sexing down’ of a Governmental Report.  I
      quote: 
      ‘The report said the best way to protect locals was to cut the maximum
      permitted noise to 38 decibels, or 33 decibels if the machines created
      discernible “beating” noises as they spun. ‘It has now emerged that
      officials removed the warnings from the draft report in 2006 by Hayes McKenzie
      Partnership (HMP), the consultants. The final version made no mention of
      them.’ http://www.windbyte.co.uk/noise.html. 

      This was confirmed  in Parliament in 2010 

       ”Mr David Davis MP : I want to pick him up on his kindness to Hayes McKenzie
      and his gentle language about what was, without doubt, a cover-up of the World
      Health Organisation guidelines, which said that people, when they sleep,
      should have an environment at 30 dB. What was said by the Government was
      something much louder than that-35 to 40 dB. That was a very bad cover-up.
      Hayes McKenzie was clearly complicit, because it did not put in the public
      domain what was said.”

      And this damning  indictment in Parliament was Followed up by The Minister of
      State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Charles Hendry) in the same
      debate: My right hon. Friend Mr Davis spoke about the previous report. I
      understand that certain issues were removed before I became involved in this
      work..”
      http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmhansrd/cm101013/halltext/101013h0002.htm

      Back to ETSU R 97. How many millions have Hayes Mackenzie made from their wind
      farm associates, using wholly unsatisfactory  guidelines – guidelines called
      ‘nonsense’ and ‘laughable’ by eminent acoustician and  Governmental  noise
      working group member Dick Bowdler. Guidelines that THEY co authored. Guidlines
      that trample over people’s well being….that still today fail to accommodate
      the latest and far more  credible WHO Guidelines  for Community Noise…as
      they have NEVER  been updated in sixteen years despite the immensity and
      power of turbines increasing hugely  since ETSUR97 was written back in
      96/97. 

      Doesn’t this remind you of those doctors and academics  who used to work for
      the cigarette lobby – paid for lackies…who would tell  us bare faced of the
      BENEFITS OF SMOKING CIGARETTES reassuringly backed  up by scientific research
      all bought and paid  for by the Tobacco industry. I say to you, Plus ca
      change Eh?

      So, We know that HMP have been criticised in the House of Commons for being
      complicit in the  ’dumbing down’ of their own 2006 report. They were ALSO
      criticised in the House of Lords for peddling outdated WHO figures regarding
      acceptable noise levels.

      Again in that 2006 report they state on pages 2,10,46 and 66 that the World
      Health Organization guidelines , say that ‘there is no reliable evidence
      that infrasounds below the hearing threshold produce physiological or
      psychological effects’.”

      BUT THIS IS DISINGENUOUS BECAUSE HMP DAMN WELL KNEW THAT THAT COMMENT WAS
      SUPERSEDED AND UPDATED  IN 1999  - the WHO Guidelines for Community Noise
      1999 clearly states in section 3.8: “The evidence on low frequency noise is
      sufficiently strong to warrant immediate concern”.  
      And 
      “Health effects due to low frequency components in noise are estimated to be
      more severe than for community noises in general)”.

      Furthermore. The 1999 WHO guidelines say: ” If the noise includes a large
      proportion of low frequency components, still lower guideline values should be
      applied”.
       The “WHO 1999, Guidelines, Critical health effects”for sleep disturbance,
      sets a limit of total noise in the bedroom at night at 30dBA, before
      additional reductions are applied to reflect the presence of LFN and the
      pulsating character of the noise.

        And yet in 2006 Hayes McKenzie/Dti Report concluded that:
      “… infrasound associated with modern wind turbines is not a source which
      will result in noise levels which may be injurious to health of a wind farm
      neighbour”.

      More lies and obfuscation!

      I am always amazed at the absolute certainties of such as wind turbineists and
      atheists.

        What medical qualifications do hayes mackenzie have to make this statement,
      NONE .was any medical  experts  consulted. NO

      Hayes Mackenzie are laughing all the way to the bank – at our expense – and
      threatening the health of families living near turbine installations

      Time they were called out!

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  2. VESTAS Technology is not using permanent magnets,when you talk about windenergy future, do you know wich is the cost per Kwh generated?, solar?, coal?, or maybe you prefer the nuclear like japanese?

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    • Actually, odd as it may seem, we have come to think that new nuclear may be as green as it gets. And that is not a position we ever expected to find ourselves in.

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  3. The significance of the Vestas and Gamesa developments is that (a) Vestas has the largest designed off-shore turbine (7.4Mw) awaiting a customer to justify prototype testing and (b) Gamesa was trying to play catch up-with its Bellshill office designing a comparable unit. These developments amount to a stall in what Government and Developers perceived to be seamless progress.

    The cynic may suggest that Vestas and Gamesa are s posturing to lobby Govt to clarify it subsidy policy. The lobbying by Vestas in this regard, prior to deciding just a few months ago to go ahead with, what is now, an abandoned manufacturing plant, was at the time , aggressive and blatant.

    Re subsidy policy, UK Govt has a more balanced energy policy than Scottish Government. The political gossip is not “if” there will be a cut in subsidy but “when” and by “how much “. It remains to be seen who wins the battle between the DECC and the Treasury

    NTA has to correct your report where you say with regard to the Tiree (Argyll) Array when you state ” ….that the Scottish Government has postponed taking a decision on this until well after the proposed date for the Independence Referendum “. It is the developer SPR that has postponed any possible decision. Not only has SPR postponed any possible consenting decision till after the Independence Referendum, but it has delayed its final investment decision till after the March 2016 Scottish elections. This confirms the NOV 2011 CITI Group report which at the time was dismissed by Scottish Government. SSE has also adopted what at best can be described as reviewing any post independence investment decisions pertaining to current proposed projects .

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    • Thank you for fine tuning the position on SPR’s postponement of the Tiree Array / Argyll Array application.

      Is there any sense of government collaboration in this move?

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • There seems to be two points at which the government can step into the planning process…one by the front door and one by the back.

        Final grantings of permissions to proceed in development and deployment are via the front door…ministers have the final say, the final YES or NO.

        And then there is the back door entry…convoluted and seriously not acceptable. The area under scrutiny is within 5 km of Tiree’s SW/W shoreline…and huge. It covers the shallow and dramatic Skerryvore and shallower areas. The area is recognised as JNCC and SNH put it…”lease damaged/most natural”…under this search criteria the area has been found to contain large numbers of endangered and at risk species: Basking Shark/Great Northern Divers of internationally important numbers use the area…Black Guilemot, Fulmar & Kittywake, Kittywake and Terns feed in the nutrient rich waters…we have visiting White Tailed Sea Eagle and other avian species. Killer/Minke whales are regulaly seen. This especial area has been put forward for full MPA and SPA accreditation…it far exceeds the necessary criteria. It this warrented accreditation is granted, as expected…SPR will have to pack their carpet bag and move on…mitigation will simply not be possible to any level of acceptance…Following a joint stakeholder meeting,we NTA should have a better idea in Dec 2012 of when accreditation will take place. However: The Back Door option is that the Government, and very same ministers who grant permissions to build are also the same key holders who say YES or NO to the environmental protection accreditation.

        Lets not kid ourselves: these ministers are ECONOMISTS and business men…NOT Environmentalists or Conservationists…

        The December meeting will decide on the fate of much of our West Coast wilderness shores and sea…!

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  4. NTA does not think so.

    The reasons given by SPR were environmental. These do not stack up, as these environmental issues were there from the outset ie since 2009. However Scottish Government’s selection of MPA’s,SPA’s has still has to be finalised. That may have a significant bearing on what off-shore Array’s, or part thereof, may be or may not be consented.
    This may be co-incidental.

    There are many other inputs to the Tiree(Argyll)Array which are taking longer time to resolve eg transmission issues Iberdrola had hinted, well in advance of any formal announcement of any delay,that Tiree (Argyll) Array was not its priority project.

    Irrespective delay in making consenting applications, and /or final investment decisions lie with the developer, and may compromise Scottish Government reaching its unilateral targets .

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  5. Pingback: Seems a Wind Giants Hitting Tough Times « newburghwindfarm

  6. Newsroom – I am continually in awe of your ability to research and assimilate information and reissue it in such a clear and explicit manner.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • Don’t totally agree there Karl – you and I and all the other ‘extremists’ have posted a lot of good/bad stuff on these forums over many months – I think ‘newsroom’ has been following it all, and as a professional journalist, has issued a clear resume above of current issues, and hopefully there will be more in the future. It’s the ease of reading that makes any article stand out.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  7. Pingback: More melt down in wind 'industry' as global giant Vestas hits serious debt burden › wind power pros and cons

  8. Seems a shame that Newsroom is gloating over Vestas’ troubles after all her previous concern about rare earth magnets.

    Vestas are the only player in the big offshore turbine market to go for a design with a gearbox. As a result of this Vestas’ machines use much less neodymium than their main competitors, Siemens, who have gone for a gearless design using huge rare earth magnets.

    It seems that on this blog any news about wind turbines is good news – as long as it is bad news :-(

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    • I believe that Enercon produce a large (7.5MW) direct-drive turbine that does not use permanent magnets (and hence neodymium) but instead, like all their smaller models, use electrically-excited rotors. Don’t know if it has been tested for offshore use though.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  9. Newsroom – I am curious to know how you justify your statement: “And all of this is happening in the context of a national grid infrastructure almost wholly unable to deal with it. There has never been a larger cart built before any prospect of the motive power to draw it.”

    A contract has been awarded for 2.2GW of HVDC import/export capacity between Glasgow & NW England (due to be commissioned around 2015), and this comes on top of some major upgrades to the existing Scotland/England interconnectors. The Beauly/Denny upgrade, following a very protracted consenting process, is under construction. SSE is working on other projects including a subsea link from Skipness to Hunterston, upgrade of the east coast transmission system and preparatory work for a further HVDC subsea link to the east coast of England from Aberdeenshire. These are just a few examples.

    In other words there are plenty of active projects in the pipeline to ensure adequate interconnection between renewable generation capacity in Scotland and demand centres in the south. There is an element of ‘catchup’ going on, partly because of the rate of installation of wind farms, and partly because investment in network capacity has to be made on the basis of demonstrable need, in order to minimise the economic risk of ending up with a huge horse and a very small cart (to reverse your analogy).

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    • About ten years ago SSE sought planning approval for a new 132kv line from the Glen Shira substation outside Inveraray to Inveruglas / Sloy west of Loch Lomond north of Tarbet, to cope with predicted windfarm output in Argyll, but as far as I’m aware it wasn’t built.

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    • Could you put a few £££ signs in your post Tim so that we can get an idea of the cost of upgrading the Grid over and above the £475 million per annum that wind farms are costing us at the moment. The amounts must be available on the net somewhere. Thanks.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • Malcolm – that’s a fair question – I don’t have any figures to hand, but I would expect that, like the wind farm subsidy total, the sum will be impressive in itself but relatively small when divided by the consumer base.

        Much of the investment needed will be in local distribution networks – either beefing up the lines & equipment or introducing ‘smart grid’ management systems to make better use of existing capacity. Bear in mind that the cost of building and maintaining rural networks in places like Argyll is very high, and so our electricity costs are already heavily ‘subsidised’ by consumers in city areas.

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  10. Lowry – thanks, I haven’t read that one yet but will do so later.

    The question of what happens to subsidies, connection charges etc. in the event of separation is very interesting and will surely need to be a central part of the independence debate.

    Also expect both sides in that debate to use it as part of their campaign, which will make it difficult to separate the technical/regulatory issues from the politics.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    • This report was based on a series of false assumptions, the greatest of which was the misapprehension (which you also suffer from Malcolm) that there was a need need to build a new fleet of OCGT stations to back up wind generation on a MW-for-MW basis. These assumptions significantly and artificially inflate the cost of energy from wind.

      Are wind turbines increasing carbon emissions?

      RenewableUK slams Civitas wind power report as inaccurate and outdated

      Civitas wind power report ‘relies on the work of cranks’

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • “wind power can increase carbon emissions”
        “Wind energy remains a highly controversial way to generate electricity for a variety of reasons, not least the costs and aesthetic impact. Claim and counter-claim dog any discussion on the topic and it is very hard to source impartial information. Therefore, when making a claim as grand and as eye-catching as “wind power can increase carbon emissions” (in order to support their objection to wind power), you would expect Civitas and Ruth Lea to cite some nailed-down, compelling research. But, instead, Civitas offers up a non-peer reviewed report published on the website of a long-standing critic of wind power. That is clearly not a high enough standard to convince someone of your argument and I feel Civitas and Lea are wrong to give this unsubstantiated claim such emphasis in both their report and the accompanying press release.

        Such an important question needs to be discussed and analysed – advocates of wind power shouldn’t shy away from such a debate (as they do) – but we are no nearer to uncovering the truth about this issue, despite the best efforts of Civitas and Lea. Until some independent, peer-reviewed research is published on this matter, this question will remain unanswered. Unsatisfactory, but true.

        Until rigorous, comprehensive research is conducted on this specific subject the debate is, sadly, sure to rage on.”

        Note> The last paragraph, note the last 4 words…the balls is still in your court on this one.

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  11. You have confirmed what I suggested above ie it may be that all sides can get something out of it. Been busy all day so have not actually read it in full but am happy to accept your summary. Cheers !

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

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