Sillars no authority but authentic voice of ‘Yes’ culture of intimidation and retribution

[Updated below 14th September] Jim Sillars has no power to put into action one iota of what he threatened last night and withdrew this morning – with the hilarious cover story that he had foamed at the mouth in rabid and retributive rage purely to get on to the Today programme?

He hadn’t meant a word of it. Sarah Montague’s ‘So you’re telling me that you said all those things just to get on here?’, was the equivalent of ‘Aye. Right’. Sillars said: ‘Yes’.

Sillars had talked of ‘a day of reckoning’; of those who had annoyed the Nats having to ‘bend at the knee’ [surely the culture of empire the Nats are supposed to repudiate?]; of the banks that had ‘threatened’ to leave Scotland being broken up in punishment; and of Scotland renationalising BP in whole or in part. That would be after it has renationalised the Post Office, as Mr Salmond has publicly promised?.

However, while Jim Sillars may not speak for the ‘Yes’ campaign, he is the authentic voice of the bullying and vindictive culture that is driving its campaign and to which so many businesses, institutions and individuals who have experienced the threats at first hand privately testify.

What Mr Sillars said, moreover, has not been disowned or repudiated by the First Minister, who has merely brushed it aside.

This line had, in fact, been floated earlier last night by the First Minister himself, as For Argyll reported. Interviewed briefly on television on a helicopter stop on his seven cities tour, Mr Salmond said: “The people of Scotland will not be bullied by by Big Oil, Big Banks or Big Supermarkets.’

This deeply divisive campaign is getting worse, with an increasingly paranoid separation of the ‘us’ of the nationalist pro-independence supporters from the ‘them’ of the other half of the population.

The ‘alternative’ 50% have hung on to reason in assessing the real and major economic risks of separation and the real and major benefits of union, with the business community, nationally and internationally, slack jawed in disbelief at the looming likelihood of a wilfully blinkered Scotland walking jauntily into chaos.

They see a Scottish breakaway from the United Kingdom as such a colossal economic mistake that they find it impossible to grasp what Scotland is thinking about.

Half of Scotland isn’t thinking, of course. The 50% of the population who have bought the nationalist prospectus are not thinking about it – and that prospectus has been shown to be economically illiterate, with no answers and no prospect of any to the major issues of concern. The faithful are simply assured that the United Kingdom will naturally give an independent Scotland the currency union Mr Salmond has gambled the country on; and that this generosity will ensure that all will be well in a golden future.

Half of Scotland has bought this nonsense, without even a first thought – which does make you wonder where rationality has gone. Something as huge as the constitutional position of any country ought never to be radically and irrrevocably altered on anything other than an evidenced and rational basis.

There was an eighteen year old on Sky News this evening talking with earnest awe of the £10 million she said Scotland’s tourism industry brings in each year; and of the £30 million a year she said the Scottish food and drink industry annually contributes. So whether or not oil delivers the projected level of revenues, the enormity of such wealth has led her to the certainty that Scotland should be independent and she will be voting ‘Yes’.

It is quite touchingly nostalgic in its innocence. Every adult can remember the days when the benchmark of pocket money and Saturday jobs made anything else seem like wondrous riches. It ain’t economics but it’s good enough for a vote – and maybe for that mythical ‘+1’ vote to carry Scotland into the unknown.

International perspectives

International experts in finance and economics have been speaking out today, in horrified concern that Scotland looks as if it actually going to step back from the United Kingdom.

Deutsche Bank’s chief economist, Mr Folkerts-Landau and its global strategist, Mr Hafeez – neither of whom nor Deutsche Bank itself can be said to be doing what David Cameron tells them – have said publicly that that they cannot understand why Scotland is seriously considering dropping out of the Union.

Mr Folkerts-Landau of the investment bank, compared the error of a pro-indy vote in five days time with the historic political and economic mistake made by Winston Churchill in 1925 when he took the pound back to the Gold Standard, despite economist John Maynard Keynes [scaremongering?] accurate prediction that this would bring deflation, unemployment, and domestic unrest. Mr Folkerts-Landaualso coited the mistake made by America’s Federal Reserve, which did not create enough liquidity in the US banks to avoid, as it could have done, leading to runs on its banks and the Great Depression in the States.

Echoing the analysis made a few days ago by Swiss bank, Credit Suisse, of ‘a deflationary shock’ [reported in For Argyll], Deutshe Bank’s global strategist, Mr Hafeez, predicted that a vote for independence would lead to a depression in Scotland and conceivably also to the whole of the United Kingdom. He could see little case for claims that an independent Scotland would flourish.

As For Argyll has said, an independent Scotland is perfectly survivable, if it has the will to withstand a tough first decade or so. The immediate problem is that the country has not been prepared for any difficulties whatsoever so the shock will  be profound for those who have automatically accepted Mr Salmond’s assurances that the risks made public are no more than ‘scaremongering’.

The risks may be frightening. Some of them may well have been made public to bring people to their senses. But a wake-up call is not a ‘threat’ and these risks are not manufactured. The trusting nationalist masses who have simply dismissed them because Mr Salmond said they were nonsense will be shaken by the post-indy reality.

The very real concern then is that they will be told all the consequent disasters are being manipulated by Westminster to do Scotland down, that they will believe that and will exact retribution on the unionist half of the population.

This is a far from unlikely scenario. Mr Salmond and his lieutenants take responsibility for nothing.

Maybe, like Jim Sillars, they all deliberately screw up just to get on the Today programme?

Today, Mr Salmond, while studiedly not repudiating Jim Sillars’ threats of retribution, declared that, on Friday 19th September, ‘The day after a Yes vote, there will cease to be a No campaign and Yes campaign – only Team Scotland. We will approach the success of Yes with magnanimity to all.’

Magnanimity has never been a perceptible element of the First Minister’s belligerent persona; and ‘Team Scotland’ is that now distant sense of oneness we had in Scotland before the SNP threw the country into this entirely unnecessary schism and sent in the stormtroopers.

His magnanimity to those of a contrary persuasion in this campaign is such that he has been unable to repudiate or to distance himself from Jim Sillars’ promises of retribution.

The immediate damage [14th September update]

Sillars also announced that he was not now going to ‘retire’ on 19th September – from whatever he would politically have been retiring from?

As a senior nationalist, he will undoubtedly have access to the directions of forward planning, so this particular threat might need to be kept in mind. Referring to Standard Life’s notification’s that it may have no choice but to transfer non-Scottish business south of the  border, Sillars warned of specific legislative constraints that would be placed on big businesses to delay and to penalise any such departures.

He said: ‘As for Standard Life, it will be required by new employment laws to give two years warning of any redundancies and reveal to the trade unions its financial reasons for relocation to any country outside of Scotland, and the costs involved.’

With the doors of the nationalists lock-in wards opened and this level of economic thinking let out to roam, the strong likelihood will be that the major companies will start processing their contingency plans to leave in the period following a ‘Yes’ vote, rather than wait to see how negotiations on currency union pan out.

Their choice is to assure powerfully their protection of the security of their depositors and investors funds – or watch them liquidate their accounts and holdings. The companies, like Standard Life and the banks could not afford to wait for any possibility of a legislative lock in with financial penalty on 24th March 2016.

The threats of Mr Sillars – which neither the First Minister nor the Yes campaign has dismissed has just about guaranteed an early run on Scotland following a Yes vote and before it gets as far as being independent.

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Related Articles & Comments

  • On the mark, as usual.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 2

    Andrew Argyle September 13, 2014 8:48 pm Reply
  • I heard him on the Today programme, he did not seem to understand the concept of an interview and just wanted to ramble on for ages. She did well to manage to shut him up a few times.

    I got this from a friend just now

    I heard today of a man in xxxxxxxx with a No inside his car when he came back was asked is this your car he said yes we … don’t like you and smashed his car window.

    I was speaking to a lady I know in xxxxxxxxx high st who is a no voter and everytime anyone passed she stopped speaking I could see fear in her eyes ‘I don’t want my neighbours to find out I am a no voter or I will have my windows smashed’.

    What a wonderful place the SNP are managing to turn Scotland into.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 27 Thumb down 3

    Lundavra September 13, 2014 8:51 pm Reply
    • Equally though I regularly go into my local and there is independence debate without there ever being any animosity or intimidation.I have great sympathy for anyone who has been given any grief by anyone for their views however let’s not paint a picture of widespread intimidation. Where it exists we should condemn it regardless of which side is guilty.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 4

      Integrity? September 13, 2014 9:09 pm Reply
    • Well lundarva as usual you conflate such an issue. I hope the police were called and as alleged (since you are very good over the past few months with such issues ) the individual is caught and charged. Can you confirm this has happened as I would like this person caught?

      As for the person that you “saw fear in her eyes” maybe you are just a scary person with Project Fear in your bones. Maybe she was scared of you and just wanted to agree with you as you project fear and anger.

      Let’s head back to reality.

      Of course she is fortunate to have a car. There are many folk whose life even if working is to live in the fear of poverty. The bankers and financial institutions have caused far more misery and vandalised lives than the alleged vandal with a brick. I am sure the regular police report would confirm this has happened .

      The real reason for this story Lundarva is the NO Bitter together project fear has failed and any diversion even at this late stage is deemed worth it.

      Hope versus fear. Faith versus distrust.

      The YES campaign has hope, faith and truth on its side. The best people able to govern Scotland are the people of Scotland.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 12

      No Cheese Here September 14, 2014 10:44 am Reply
      • Have you ever spelt anyone’s name right, NCH?

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

        Robert Wakeham September 14, 2014 4:33 pm Reply
      • NCH, the Yes campaign has anything but TRUTH on its side. They do not know the meaning of the word. SNP friends have told me that they will promise anything to anyone in an attempt to get them to vote Yes. They have no concerns as to what problems the country will face if a Yes vote prevails.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

        Oban Worthy September 14, 2014 5:23 pm Reply
      • NCH.
        I am going to post a reply to your comments at the foot of the page so it will be easy for all posters and guests to find and read.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        Treble T September 16, 2014 2:20 pm Reply
  • Nationalise BP!?!

    Was poor old Jim on his “way hame frae ‘de auld Sarry Heid'” when he came off with that one?

    I really don’t want to mock him because he used to cut a dignified figure and of course, he recently suffered the loss of his wife Margo McDonald who I don’t think would have subscribed to stuff like that and who, indeed, had little time for the bold AS and his toadying cohorts.

    Temporarily, or permanently, I’d say he’s lost it and that’s a shame.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 5

    Andrew Argyle September 13, 2014 9:06 pm Reply
    • Andrew Argyle ” I really don’t want to mock him”

      Then you go on and mock him. Irony is not your watchword.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 10

      No Cheese Here September 14, 2014 10:46 am Reply
      • In spite of Jim’s colourful remarks, I went out of my way not to mock him, for the reasons expressed in my comment.

        I’m genuinely saddened to see him coming off with stuff like that after a dignified political career, along with his well-respected wife, Margo McDonald.

        I hope he was just on his way home from the pub, as opposed to any other explanation for his outburst.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

        Andrew Argyle September 14, 2014 11:03 am Reply
        • Jim Sillars himself said, yesterday morning, that his comment was by way of getting on the radio, and it worked.
          NCH’s comments are so consistently trashy that they’re hardly worth serious reply.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

          Robert Wakeham September 14, 2014 11:22 am Reply
    • BP shareholders would be delighted if Jim Sillars and his fellow left wing SNP supporters were to nationalise the BP oil fields in the North Sea and around Shetland.
      If BP have any oil fields left in the North Sea they will be almost dry whilst the oil fields around Shetland are much more difficult to extract oil from due to the depth they have to drill plus the inclement weather.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

      Treble T September 16, 2014 2:24 pm Reply
  • Newsroom, two points on what you wrote,
    1.Jim Sillars let the mask slip and we saw the true ugly face of the Yes Campaign and a snatch of what is to come in the event of a Yes majority.
    2.An Independent Scotland is perfectly survivable if it has the will to withstand a tough first Decade, agreed but how many of the people Scotland doesn’t want to loose will go? What promises will have to be made to avoid an exodus similar to that in Ireland.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 22 Thumb down 3

    richard September 13, 2014 9:14 pm Reply
    • You identify the problem.
      The financial sector businesses have not been making ‘threats’. They have been issuing wake up calls. The two are not the same thing,
      They are also not talking Scotland down. They are saying that the nature of their own business interests, their clients anxieties about uncertainties on currency, tax regimes, pensions and mortgage regulators – and the EU legal framework in which they exist, will require them, in major part, to move south of the border. This would be in the event of a Scotland outside the certainty of the securities of the United Kingdom.
      Not one of those ccompanies who have said that they would have to move their non-Scottish business and relocate their head offices has suggested that any other business should follow them.
      They have simply, in the interests of their obligation to assure their clients and shareholders that their deposits and investments will be secured, made their own situations clear.
      If they have to go, this will substantially hurt the Scottish economy; and substantially benefit the economy of the continuing United Kingdom.
      Jobs will of course be lost here and some people – inevitably those with the highest skill levels and respected expertise – will move out to keep their jobs or to find equivalents. Their loss will be a capital loss of another kind.
      All of this – which will require all sorts of readjustments to the unmoderated expectations and ambitions that have deliberately encouraged, will be part but not all of the decade of tough times an independent Scotland will experience and for which it is not at all prepared.
      All of us, on either side of the indy issue, are frightened of this prospect; and all of us will be hurt by it, whether or not we will have been responsible for bringing it about.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 21 Thumb down 1

      newsroom September 13, 2014 10:26 pm Reply
      • Anybody else see the irony in big banks warning us not to gamble with our future ?

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

        Arthur Blue September 16, 2014 8:47 pm Reply
    • Project Fear Osborne, Darling and Milliband – guards on the border — the true face of Project fear and they are all bitter together.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 8

      No Cheese Here September 14, 2014 10:47 am Reply
      • NCH, Get the facts right, it was the results of a survey in East Sussex that showed the public’s attitude and it wasn’t just border guards what about No to a Currency Union, Scotland and Salmond cannot dictate to the rUK and Westminster will have to listen to its electorate.
        Vote Yes and you have No say in this, Scotland will have to negotiate in a hurry.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

        richard September 16, 2014 9:03 pm Reply
  • There is another element of the population of Scotland that are equally important as the highly skilled, the Retired or those close to retirement, many have saved, have good pensions and are financially secure. At the same time many do not have family commitments and moving is not a big deal when you look at the potential benefits against the danger of higher taxation and cost of living.
    The ‘Silver pound’ is a substantial contributor to the economy and is not to be ignored.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 23 Thumb down 2

    richard September 13, 2014 10:52 pm Reply
    • You’re right, I’m retired and secure enough that I don’t have to work – and I don’t want to, I’ve had my bellyful of that.

      If there’s any threat of having to return to working for someone else, I’ll be OFF-SKY!

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 19 Thumb down 3

      Andrew Argyle September 13, 2014 11:17 pm Reply
    • The retired percentage of the population of Scotland, which is significant, has a substantial economic value as well as a social one – and beyond paying local and national taxes and spending within the local and national economies.
      This specific sector of the population is a universal source of heavyweight volunteering.
      Retired or shortly retiring people have decades of serious experience, of life itself and of the knowledge, skills and insights related to their particular employments.
      It is rare these days for anyone in this category not to make themselves available to meet needs arising from community development projects.
      In human terms, this saves valuable experience and expertise from being wasted.
      In social terms, the practice of volunteering is an agent of genuine improvement.
      In economic terms the overall value of volunteering is as close to incalculable as it gets.
      It is likely that there will be an exodus of people in this category, partly driven by the stress of insecurity that does now lie around the issue of pensions; and partly, in the case of those who have chosen to retire into Scotland, of having come, through this particular campaign, to feel that they are perceived as alien and to fear that they may be vulnerable to a variety of abuses in the aftermath of whatever way Thursday’s vote goes.
      The loss of such people, many of whom give a great deal to their communities and to the country, will be one of texture and variety – always the problem of nationalism, which is essentially a thin political philosophy.
      Sadly, a hefty number of retirees who own their own homes here, virtually always having used the savings of their lifetimes’ work to buy them, will be economic hostages and unable to move.
      Property values and property sales will fall as the uncertainty persists in a Scotland that has decided to be independent and in a Scotland that has become independent.
      Some people will move within Scotland, so it’s not that no property will sell, but the robustness and spectrum of demand cannot remain unaffected.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 2

      newsroom September 13, 2014 11:46 pm Reply
      • Spot on, although, I would add that there are plenty of sunny places in Southern Europe which have fared worse than the UK since 2008 who will be pleased to welcome such folk and, provided you don’t insist on living on the promenade, will have plenty of property which, for the time being can’t be sold.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 2

        Andrew Argyle September 13, 2014 11:56 pm Reply
    • Some reports have suggested the opposite. Some young, new voters, have said they will take a chance voting Yes, in the knowledge there is a strong possibility it could go pear-shaped, because they are young enough to just emigrate either South over the border or further afield.

      I have savings and good pensions but moving would eat into my savings badly and also be a lot of effort (I have too much junk!). I am unlikely to win on the lottery because I never buy tickets but if a Premium Bond came up with a big prize then I would almost certainly move in the event of Yes vote.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 2

      Lundavra September 13, 2014 11:57 pm Reply
      • Interestingly a Facebook daughter of a friend has just completed freshers week…

        She posted on Facebook saying she was voting YES… she comes from a family voting NO… I asked her why she intended to vote YES. ” I have 3 years in uni, things will be ok when I get out”……” hopefully going to Australia….”

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 14 Thumb down 1

        Karl Hughes September 14, 2014 7:25 am Reply
        • Karl, ——– ‘a gap year’ or maybe two, then a couple of years in London,get married, she’s not that far out on her timing.
          Maybe we’re the fools!

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1

          richard September 14, 2014 8:14 am Reply
          • back to Uni eh…? as a mature student….?

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

            Karl Hughes September 14, 2014 10:41 am
        • Karl.
          Unlike the UK, Australia are fussy who they let in to their country. They only let in hard working people who are going to be an asset to their country and a UK university degree is no longer the meal ticket it once was.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

          Treble T September 16, 2014 2:29 pm Reply
  • Could arrange a bus to take the “patriots” overseas.

    I am not sure you would be given all the benefits that you have here.

    Obviously you lot don’t believe in democracy. The selfish I am off — throw the dummy out of the pram.

    One good thing though it will allow our young folk a chance to get some homes which have been abandoned and make Argyll a better place. Far too many second home owners here already.

    Adios.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 16

    No Cheese Here September 14, 2014 12:39 am Reply
    • As a result of working hard and educating myself all my life, I don’t need your “benefits” which, incidentally, come courtesy of the UK, especially, the high tax take from London, and I abhor the anti-English crap, thinly-veiled as political critique of Westminster.

      I was born and brought up in and have always lived in, Scotland, and I want no part of any Scotland that remotely resembles the values you espouse.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 21 Thumb down 1

      Andrew Argyle September 14, 2014 1:03 am Reply
      • ‘Anti-English crap’ is one (of several) accurate descriptions of NCH.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 1

        Robert Wakeham September 14, 2014 1:21 am Reply
        • Anti- Scots is the baseline of project wakemeup.

          Project Fear will not win.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 8

          No Cheese Here September 14, 2014 10:50 am Reply
          • You really are a disgrace to Holyrood.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

            Robert Wakeham September 14, 2014 11:09 am
    • NCH, ‘Obviously you lot don’t believe in democracy’
      Have you never heard of market forces in a democratic society? or freedom of movement? What about choice happiness, satisfaction.
      All the benefits we have here!
      Just like all politicians you haven’t read the whole thread and shown yourself up as as an ignorant fool.
      The fact that there is a shortage of 1st time buyer homes is nothing to crow about, the SNP have had more than adequate time to address the problem and have failed, I suggest spending the Methadone budget on housing.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1

      richard September 14, 2014 7:54 am Reply
      • Rickets

        Not sure how many times too many people you have called ignorant. Look back a few months and I have identified my qualifications etc..

        Having said that one of the most literate and clever persons I have ever met never attended a University. The opportunity was never available to him. That is one of the saddest parts of the Bitter campaign. Many of the benefits available to Labour and other politicians over the years are being denied to young people in England and the other RUK countries. One reason Scotland is succeeding by rejecting the selfish.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 5

        No Cheese Here September 14, 2014 10:55 am Reply
        • Perhaps, NCH, you could enlighten us all by reminding us of your ‘qualifications etc’?

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

          Robert Wakeham September 14, 2014 11:12 am Reply
    • If there’s a No vote next week I think we’ll see dummy throwing by AS on a very regular basis which will seriously diminish his position as First Minister. I hope not. I really hope that whatever the outcome he will lead this country and make it a priority to heal the rifts that have been allowed to develop. My leanings are toward voting no but do I sound bitter?

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1

      keith stanger September 14, 2014 9:28 am Reply
      • Logical…realistic….hopeful…definately not bitter….definately not intimidated.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

        Karl Hughes September 14, 2014 10:43 am Reply
    • NCH
      If you want to bring up the topic of second home owners in Argyll & Bute I suggest that you should also bring up the topic of ex local authority houses currently being let out as holiday accommodation to tourists in Argyll & Bute.
      The current owners of ex local authority houses would never have been able to let them out as self catering holiday accommodation if Argyll District Council had been as clever as North East Fife District Council after the introduction of regional and district authorities in 1975.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      Treble T September 16, 2014 2:35 pm Reply
  • “Far too many second home owners here already”, Cheese?
    Really?
    In a very small corner of Argyll (surrounded by water), a local builder persuaded A&BC planners to give him planning permission to build nine houses at the edge of the village. Of those nine houses, that local builder sold eight as holiday homes.
    Ring any bells Cheese?

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 1

    ClootieDumpling September 14, 2014 1:08 am Reply
    • CD – you mustn’t talk to an SNP member of the Scottish Parliament like that – you could get nationalised, or marmalised, or worse.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 2

      Robert Wakeham September 14, 2014 1:23 am Reply
      • Clattie dumplin
        No not personally
        Are you mistaking me with someone else?

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 8

        No Cheese Here September 14, 2014 10:56 am Reply
      • Roberto

        You must stop lying. You have been told time and time again that I am not a politician.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 6

        No Cheese Here September 14, 2014 10:58 am Reply
        • Prove it.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

          Robert Wakeham September 14, 2014 11:15 am Reply
        • Why then are you insisting on drawing people on this thread into petty carping about what is, actually, a non-issue, when there are serious issues on other threads which have the potential to cause difficulty for, or embarrass, the Yes campaign?

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

          Andrew Argyle September 14, 2014 11:33 am Reply
        • @ NCH So you are who they think you are!

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

          Sokay September 16, 2014 3:16 pm Reply
    • Interesting….MacLeods Builders ? same on Tiree ….. built himself a holiday home to that stays empty for 7 months of the year !

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

      Karl Hughes September 14, 2014 7:29 am Reply
  • Except for NCH, all the replies so far on this article seem to be saying, I’m all right Jack, I bought into this good life and I don’t need to work, To hell with the young people and their future.

    Many other people who could afford to do the same do not, but continue to work and contribute to society through paying taxes.
    If we were unfortunate enough to have a NO result this week, how many of these people, reading comments like the ones above, will throw in the towel and also become idle rich, knowing that all their work and support is to a country that does not believe in itself?
    I have high hopes that the Yes campaign will win through and that our people will continue to work together for the benefit of everyone, all contributing as they are able. A nation of workers and not retirees.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 16

    Murdoch MacKenzie September 14, 2014 3:40 am Reply
    • Murdoch, many people work past the official retirement age and pay taxes, but you need to read the whole thread, this is about struggling for the next ‘decade’
      I merely pointed out that some elements of the population won’t want that, the younger highly skilled and the older who have worked, saved and want to enjoy the last part of there lives.
      Both categories are major contributors to the Scottish economy, there is no attraction to stay if your going to be taxed into the ground and have the cost of living increase.
      People are prepared to work hard but they need to feel satisfied and enjoy the rewards.
      As Newsroom quite rightly said the property market is one of the barometers of the economy, it is currently ‘stalled’ due to uncertainty and a change of tax (stamp duty) in the next Scottish budget, let’s hope it picks up.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1

      richard September 14, 2014 7:34 am Reply
      • Brain drain south….?
        Scots will be seen as migrant workers from a foreign country…re-locate to where the pay is higher…remaining UK members can add what they see as low-risk migrants to their targets. Exclude other “higher risk” migrants from entering the rest of UK…

        In this world you get what you pay for…we in Scotland will notice this.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 2

        Karl Hughes September 14, 2014 8:15 am Reply
        • With Mr Salmond’s plans in ten years time a Scot in Scotland will probably be classified as a ‘rare breed’ of scientific interest.
          Mind you you’ll have to catch one 1st and chasing them through the heather is hard.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 3

          richard September 14, 2014 8:26 am Reply
  • New ICM poll puts Yes at 54% Yes 46%

    Are you feeling lucky, punks?

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 9

    Longshanks September 14, 2014 4:10 am Reply
    • Are you feeling dozy, Longshanks?

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

      Robert Wakeham September 14, 2014 10:31 am Reply
  • Longshanks, “New ICM poll puts Yes at 54% Yes 46%.”

    So Yes is 100% then? Brilliant ;0)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 5

    Murdoch MacKenzie September 14, 2014 7:03 am Reply
    • MM you pleased with the recent actions of IS brothers in arms with Hamas who you take great pride in aligning yourself with?

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

      Sokay September 14, 2014 11:06 am Reply
      • I don’t know if this comment is aimed at me, but I can’t remember ever commenting on either IS or Hamas. All I know about IS is that they are John McCain’s mates, so thus they will never be aligned with me.
        When you go round the world starting wars you have to expect that people will not always support your side.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3

        Murdoch MacKenzie September 14, 2014 10:08 pm Reply
        • yes you Murdoch it was on a thread regarding the Palestinian flag in Glasgow at least two others recall the post!

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

          Sokay September 15, 2014 9:44 am Reply
          • What’s a post about the Palestinian flag got to do with IS? Sounds like you’re memory is playing tricks on you. I support the people of Palestine’s right to defend themselves against the illegal theft of their homeland, no matter how much money the aggressors feed to Westminster’s evil, blackmailed politicians.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3

            Murdoch MacKenzie September 15, 2014 12:53 pm
        • Murdoch …You are such an ignorant man…shame on you.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

          Karl Hughes September 15, 2014 9:46 am Reply
          • I would hate to think that you thought differently about me.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3

            Murdoch MacKenzie September 15, 2014 12:57 pm
  • Longshanks. When the Three Stooges headed off in a panic response, they did so not in the light of one YouGov poll, but in response to extensive private polling.

    And no, you don’t need to ask the bitter unionists on this column if they feel lucky, because you know fine well they don’t.

    Decidedly downbeat all joy has left them.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 11

    willie September 14, 2014 7:09 am Reply
    • Willie, that Buckfast hangover makes your morning posts a delight to read, what has Luck got to do with this thread?
      I suggest you go away and buy a ‘lottery ticket’ you might get three numbers!
      You’d better hurry you may not be able to do that in a weeks time. (National Lottery)

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1

      richard September 14, 2014 8:05 am Reply
      • Ah rickets,

        Buck fast -! You are racially stereotyping a Scot. Please no more racism .

        Who make buck fast anyway.?

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 4

        No Cheese Here September 14, 2014 11:01 am Reply
        • A bunch of monks in Fast Buck Abbey.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

          Robert Wakeham September 14, 2014 11:50 am Reply
        • Your mate jnrtick started it with the world shattering report that is wee “yes” sign that he’d crocheted himself (gives that kind of impression)had been damaged and the perpetrator of this heinous crime may have been drinking b/fast!

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

          Sokay September 15, 2014 10:05 am Reply
    • The 3 stooges?

      That would be Salmond, Sturgeon and Swinney? 🙂

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

      Jamie Black September 14, 2014 8:45 pm Reply
  • On a somewhat chirpier note it seems that only six days off the referendum that Gamekeeper Willie of the Simpsons has come out in favour of Scottish Independence.

    Certainly brought a smile to my face listening to Gamekeeper Willie giving out about Scotland having 2/3 of Europe’s oil reserves, and that Alex Salmond and Andy Murray were good patriots and nearly as good as himself – who as a US citizen does’t have a vote.

    Given however that the release of the video has gone viral with 1.1 million hits in 24 hours, and given that Willie will be hitting an audience of about 85 million in the US alone, Greenkeeper Willie is right on the ball.

    Not sure if the Woodentops in the Westminster Bunker will agree, but he’ll have raised a few smiles everywhere else.

    Hollrood or Hollywood, Willie’s on the Campaign Trail.

    See it on –

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6vDzf-wSbk

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 2 Thumb down 13

    willie September 14, 2014 8:29 am Reply
    • Childish.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 4

      richard September 14, 2014 8:36 am Reply
      • Childish.. Look at your blogs above. Dummy and babyish comes to mind!

        Lol

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 10

        No Cheese Here September 14, 2014 11:02 am Reply
    • Saw it yesterday…an amusing perception of the Scottish nationalists by Hollywrood , USA, as consisting of a threatening aggressive mob, stirred up by clan driven folks who live in a past age of oppression and occupation…..surely this can’t be true….after all, the movie Historic fairy tale “Braveheart ” was 100% historically correct was it not, Willie ? hang on a second is the main character not a game keeper working for his lordship in a foreign country ??????? could be nearer to actuality than bears thinking aboot !
      Viral….are you talking about nationalism or the comic video ??? there are cures…generally, anti virals are designed to not destroy the pathogen, instead they inhibit their development…

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2

      Karl Hughes September 14, 2014 8:46 am Reply
      • You wouldn’t believe the number of Braveheart references, quotes and so on I’ve seen and heard over the last few days! It’s pretty funny, especially given how sensitive nationalists are about being called ‘Bravehearts’!

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

        Jamie Black September 14, 2014 10:19 pm Reply
  • Newsie, your proposition that Jim Sillars, who holds no office as far as I’m aware in either the SNP or the Yes campaign, reflects more accurately the polices of that campaign than its actual officers is as sensible as suggesting that the repugnant Orange Order, BNP, UKIP, EDL, SDL and the other odious organisations trying to persuade us to vote ‘No’ are somehow more symptomatic that campaign’s agenda, is quite frankly stupid, even your own appalingly low standards.
    And of couse then you the inevitable usual suspects on here all rushing to support your fanciful hypothesis. Lundavra’s baseless account of the experience of his ‘ coveniently handy’ and/or ‘imaginary friend’ is unbelievable as it is unverifiable.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 13

    Simon September 14, 2014 8:45 am Reply
    • Simon, you are correct in that Jim Sillars has no official role (and how Alex Salmond must be wishing he had no unofficial role either).

      However what I have asked in other threads and the usual suspects have always ignored is whether people feel his idiotic remark will push undecided voters in those companies toward a No vote.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2

      Integrity? September 14, 2014 8:59 am Reply
      • Jim Sillars is a former deputy leader of the SNP and the YES Scotland leadership did not condem his statement about taking revenge on companies who were in favour of remaining in the Union.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

        Treble T September 16, 2014 2:44 pm Reply
    • Simon, None of the organisations you refer to are recognised by the No campaign unlike Sillars and the Yes campaign.
      Sillars and Salmond go together, 79 Group ring any bells Simon.
      Simon the Troll is back.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 3

      richard September 14, 2014 9:11 am Reply
      • Simon

        Don’t mention the Orange order NEWSIE is from Ireland . Former SDLP . DUP? Labour then SNP then supports the Tories?

        Who would trust her views on anything!

        Which way is the wind blowing tonight?

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 9

        No Cheese Here September 14, 2014 11:07 am Reply
  • The Orange march a march most foul comprising of a band of skin heads, neo-nazis, and pope haters, they typify intolerance and hatred – and quite frankly wouldn’t Scotland be a much better place without people of this predilection.

    Quite why the Labour Party are happy with this type of support one can only shudder to think.

    Maybe Bitter Together as in Bitter Orange is the correct description.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 9

    willie September 14, 2014 8:59 am Reply
    • Willie, either your totally ignorant or your not in Scotland, question for you Willie, How many Flute Bands are there in Scotland?

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2

      richard September 14, 2014 9:06 am Reply
      • Rickets

        Please clarify your thinking here if you have any!

        If I have a flute and record myself twice can I be a band. Need this clarification for accuracy.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 8

        No Cheese Here September 14, 2014 11:09 am Reply
        • NCH, the question wasn’t directed at you, I suggest that If you have a flute you go and play it, be careful no one shouts ‘Open Sesame’ we might find all those hidden SNP plans in your cave.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

          richard September 14, 2014 12:18 pm Reply
    • Just as you distance yourself and your Nationalist campaign from the likes of Siol nan Gaideal…. (?)
      So the NO campaign has distanced itself from the darker side of Unionism…such as the BNP….
      Don’t go there Willie you are grabbing at highly volitile straws….
      We should all be thankfull that yesterdays march by the Orange Order went off without a single incident…no mean feat given the number was over 15,000… your average football crowd of 15,000 can expect arrests.

      Leopards cannot change their spots…the Orange order is on the way out…times change do they not…

      Leopards cannot change their spots…..remember that.

      Decline of the 79 Group

      Early in 1982, Sinn Féin wrote inviting a 79 Group speaker to its ardfheis (conference). With Provisional Irish Republican Army violence ongoing, Sinn Féin were considered unacceptable to public opinion in Great Britain. Alex Salmond moved to reject the request and won, but minutes of the meeting were leaked to the press, linking the two groups.[1] Soon after, the 1982 conference of the SNP voted to ditch “Scottish Resistance”, despite a strong speech by Salmond claiming that to do so was to adopt “a defeatist and cringing mentality”.[1] Many non-79 Group members felt that the civil disobedience campaign had collapsed in farce.Decline of the 79 GroupEdit

      Early in 1982, Sinn Féin wrote inviting a 79 Group speaker to its ardfheis (conference). With Provisional Irish Republican Army violence ongoing, Sinn Féin were considered unacceptable to public opinion in Great Britain. Alex Salmond moved to reject the request and won, but minutes of the meeting were leaked to the press, linking the two groups.[1] Soon after, the 1982 conference of the SNP voted to ditch “Scottish Resistance”, despite a strong speech by Salmond claiming that to do so was to adopt “a defeatist and cringing mentality”.Many non-79 Group members felt that the civil disobedience campaign had collapsed in farce.

      The SNP leadership under Gordon Wilson finally decided that the group’s activity must be stopped. At the 1982 SNP conference in Ayr, Wilson threatened to resign unless the conference passed a motion to proscribe all organised political groupings within the party (the motion covered Winifred Ewing’s Campaign for Nationalism in Scotland as well). He won what was described as a Pyrrhic victory by 308 to 188. However the 79 Group’s members mostly retained their offices within the party.

      The SNP leadership under Gordon Wilson finally decided that the group’s activity must be stopped. At the 1982 SNP conference in Ayr, Wilson threatened to resign unless the conference passed a motion to proscribe all organised political groupings within the party (the motion covered Winifred Ewing’s Campaign for Nationalism in Scotland as well). He won what was described as a Pyrrhic victory by 308 to 188. However the 79 Group’s members mostly retained their offices within the party.

      Leopards cannot change their spots….. did Alex ever acknowledge his mistake ?????? I can find no reference.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2

      Karl Hughes September 14, 2014 9:06 am Reply
      • Does the leopards not changing spots axiom apply to the likes of former Trotskyists and Marxists like Darling, ‘Lord’ Reid, and many others, or to former Bullingdon oafs like Cameron, Osborne and Johnson, or are you just being selective to try to make your point?

        I have to admit though, I’ve never known an Orangeman, or Orangewoman, to change their spots.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 7

        Chuck September 14, 2014 11:30 am Reply
        • No I am being selective to destroy Willie’s point… you might want to equate your comparisons on marxism and trotskyists in relation to the difference betwee nationalism….and internationalism…and unionism and nationalism…

          My point stands.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2

          Karl Hughes September 14, 2014 11:44 am Reply
          • So your point is that nationalism is ok with ex Trots and Marxists if it’s of the British variety, because communism supposedly embraced internationalism, and it goes without saying that the present generation of Bullingdon oafs will be English nationalists and British nationalists so that’s ok too?

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 8

            Chuck September 14, 2014 1:18 pm
          • As Cilla Black would say…”the point is lost on you Chuck…”

            🙂

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

            Karl Hughes September 14, 2014 4:39 pm
          • Delighted to agree.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

            Chuck September 14, 2014 6:30 pm
        • I did not realise that the Bullingdon Club was a political organisation, it is just a club where students meet and get drunk as happens at universities all over the world. They just happen to wear a form of formal dress, other student clubs wear other things. At least they were not as bad as Ed Balls’ Steamers’ Club as I have never seen any suggestion any of the Bullingdon Club ever wore Nazi uniform.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

          Lundavra September 15, 2014 1:39 pm Reply
        • Chuck, I assume that orangey people remain adolescents all their lives.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

          Robert Wakeham September 15, 2014 2:56 pm Reply
    • The bitterness is all yours Willie. Somehow you are disappointed in good behaviour.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2

      phill September 14, 2014 10:31 am Reply
    • willie.
      Not only are the Orange Order in favour of remaining part of the UK, the masonic lodges in Scotland will also be in favour of remaining part of the UK.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

      Treble T September 16, 2014 2:46 pm Reply
  • I had a Twitter dialogue with a manager of a London hedge fund yesterday evening, not that I think he was expecting it. He’d been spouting forth tactical advice to his city friends and acolytes, plainly unaware that the #indyref hashtag he used was trending.

    The advice he was Tweeting on going long or short on currency was based on what he believed to be the latest poll. I suggested in a spirit of helpfulness that he should cast around a bit more for his intelligence than the two day old paper he was quoting and that the leak of ICM’s 54% Yes had been breaking all over Twitter since about 8pm. On what constituted Yes/ No, I had to gently point out that he had the two camps mixed up and that actually No = pro-Union, not the other way round.

    Realising I could help this man, I finally asked him for a job but he hasn’t come back to me yet.

    #justsaying

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2

    Chuck September 14, 2014 9:01 am Reply
  • And its into the hands of these crazies we’re being asked to trust our futures?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 6

    Jerry McIver September 14, 2014 10:11 am Reply
  • Saw and heard sillars on bbc news yesterday, all that was missing was a string vest, rude, obnoxious and ignorant, another yes person like sturgeon blaming every non yes person for the election of thatcher in ’79 and completely ignoring the shame accorded the snp for that result. Did anyone else witness the circus that was the yes campaign in Oban yesterday, cringe worthy, supposed mature adults on the verge of the most important vote in their lives parading through the town kilts, saltires, bagpipes, paint and balloons, blasting horns and monopolising corran halls car park (how many paid and displayed) another+ for the no side

    .
    Added thro’ edit forgot to mention comment heard outside “yes” shop George street “thank fxxk he’s no longer teaching”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 3

    Sokay September 14, 2014 10:33 am Reply
    • I saw the “Yes” circus as well. A chilling foretaste of what we’d be in for if “Yes” carried the day.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1

      ClootieDumpling September 14, 2014 12:20 pm Reply
      • Isn’t it quite normal and completely understandable to celebrate the independence of ones country? ‘Chilling’? Really?

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 7

        JnrTick September 15, 2014 2:54 am Reply
        • No! when did you last celebrate Christmas before Dec 25th, have you ever celebrated winning the lottery before the draw, have you ever wasted police time and resources by reporting a damaged sign, this time before it was damaged, get real!

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

          Sokay September 15, 2014 9:55 am Reply
          • I’m atheist, don’t do Christmas and Yes, call me old fashioned but I report crime rather than take matters into my own hands.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

            JnrTick September 16, 2014 1:02 am
    • A convoy passed me en route to Oban yesterday so I suppose it was a planned rally. Were the participants trying to sell the message to the undecideds of Oban or was it for mutually congratulating each other for being committed to the cause?

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0

      Keith Stanger September 14, 2014 12:38 pm Reply
      • And a celebration victory ceilidh after it as well. Oh my God.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

        phill September 14, 2014 12:41 pm Reply
      • Perhaps the same lot as had taken over Cameron Square on Saturday, it looked a right mess with their banners everywhere. They just seemed to be giving out posters and balloons to kids and slapping each other on the back.

        For all the talk of canvassing, I have only had junk mail through the letter box with no one actually ringing the bell. I have passed the SNP crowd congregating in the High Street many times but they just stand around talking to each other and a few cronies (not that I am complaining!).

        My poor shredder has been working hard.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

        Lundavra September 15, 2014 1:49 pm Reply
        • They are flooding the ‘yes shop’ with themselves. Pathetic. same faces there all the time.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

          phill September 16, 2014 10:13 pm Reply
        • Lundavra – are you sure that the kids aren’t registered as 16- or 17-year old voters? This is reported to be happening in some places, as the identity rules don’t apply to ‘under age’ voters.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          Robert Wakeham September 16, 2014 11:03 pm Reply
    • Publicity hungry front man and formerly teacher.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

      phill September 14, 2014 12:44 pm Reply
    • Sokay.
      Last June we had Dennis Canavan and Alex Bell speaking in the Gaelic College on Islay speaking on behalf of Labour for Independence.
      Alex Bell was hell bent on re-nationalising everything in sight and as an ex shop steward he would bring back the closed shop in a minute.
      Most of the Yes Islay supporters at that meeting would not have a clue what the closed shop was as they live on a island where there are no factories.
      Most of the Yes Islay supporters were people who had their own businesses which would be taxed to the hilt if Canavan and Bell got their way with their “Old Labour” tactics.
      I come from Dundee and know all about strikes whereas the residents of Islay are still living in the equivalent of Brigadoon.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

      Treble T September 16, 2014 2:55 pm Reply
      • Sorry Treble T are you replying to a post or just providing info. cheers

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        Sokay September 16, 2014 3:36 pm Reply
        • Sokay.
          Both.
          I was replying to your post about that “out of control” nationalist Sillars and providing information about Alex Bell and Dennis Canavan as well.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

          Treble T September 16, 2014 9:20 pm Reply
  • Integrity, I wouldn’t have thought that Jim Sillars’ comments would have any effect on any rational person despite the best efforts of the Daily Mail, Express, For Argyll and the'(mock) easily-offended’ Iike bichard to make an issue of this. Compare the predictable treatment Sillars received to the muted reaction the Prime Minister received after swearing live on tv.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 8

    Simon September 14, 2014 11:04 am Reply
    • Maybe the general public didn’t consider Cameron’s remark to be particularly offensive, Simon, compared to Sillar’s old-style authoritarian growl.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

      Robert Wakeham September 14, 2014 11:28 am Reply
    • Honestlly. You don’t think someone who is currently undecided and looking to swing one way or the other, might just be affected by a remark which suggests a vendetta against their employer and therefore arguably their job security. Yes Sillars has no authority anymore but Salmond has done very little to distant himself from the thought process behind the remark (the excuse about doing it to get on radio was laughable). At the moment everything any politican says or does is focused on gaining votes on Thursday and every slip up will be seized upon by the other side to try and maximise impact. Jim Sillars remark was beyond stupid.

      The only thing that has surprised me so far is that the No campaign haven’t made more of it than has been made. This is why the Yes campaign has closed the polls – they are making much better use of social media to get their message out there (both the factual message and the spin) whereas the No campaign are making a bit of a half arsed job of it.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

      Integrity? September 14, 2014 11:33 am Reply
      • He also proposed that employers should have to give two years notice of a closure / move. Great way to attract international companies to move here.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

        Lundavra September 15, 2014 1:52 pm Reply
      • To be fair to Alex Salmond, when asked about Jim Sillars comment about “a day of reckoning”, he replied,” I think it will be a day of celebration”
        Hardly siding with or condoning Jim’s quote. Alex Salmond’s comment suggests the complete opposite of Jim’s.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 4

        JnrTick September 16, 2014 12:59 am Reply
        • “Hardly siding with or condoning Jim’s quote. Alex Salmond’s comment suggests the complete opposite of Jim’s”….How does that sit or fit with your description of your wee “yes” sign as follows “My sign is a symbol of unity toward Scotland’s struggle for independence.” Should be showing your sign to those two or are you all schizophrenics?

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

          Sokay September 16, 2014 1:40 am Reply
        • I have worked in and around government long enough (and I would wager you have been engaged in politics long enough – or maybe worked around it) to know a deflection answer when we see it!

          If this was a Paxman / Howard moment I am pretty sure we might have seen the same question asked 9 times until it was blatantly clear the First minister wasn’t going to answer it.

          I’m not particularly criticising Alex Salmond for it – well I am but no more or less than just about every other politician involved in this debate.

          My take on it is that it was a bloody stupid comment by Sillars but I don’t doubt for a second he meant it (the claim that it was for publicity was almost comically poor). I don’t think Salmond would have ever said it and I don’t actually believe he would think it either. I personally feel he would have gained more respect/credibility if he had come out and:

          1. Disagreed with Jim Sillars’s comment
          2. Made clear that a SNP government would not be abusing its power to seek any retribution
          3. Furthermore confirmed their commitment to work with all businesses, of all sizes, to make Scotland a more prosperous nation.

          And then kicked Jim Sillars into the long grass.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

          Integrity? September 16, 2014 8:50 am Reply
          • Then why didn’t he, and why doesn’t he when things like this come up?

            He has not behaved like a statesman at all in this campaign, which on Friday could be something he wishes he’d done.

            BT campaign has been abysmal (although, ironically, I actually think the media are to blame for this – note how they only ever quote the ‘scares’ and completely ignore any part of a pro-union speech that talks positively about Scotland or the UK?) – however where the Yes campaign have triumphed in their engagement and ‘positivity’, they have been let down by two key things.

            1 – the substance of their arguement. It’s coming out now that really, most Yes voters actually accept that it’s pretty much an unknown and they just want us to make decisions.
            2) The agro and belligerence shown by the SNP towards Westminster and indirectly, England.

            For 1 – I think a lot more honesty would have gone a long way in actually reassuring voters i.e accepting the unknowns and the risks and presenting the range of options to work on.

            For 2 – I believe had the SNP someone else other than Marmite Salmond (or Sturgeon), they could have tipped the balance in favour of a Yes.

            As things stand, it’s looking like 50/50 – a poor result for either side.

            Had the Yes and SNP addressed 1 and 2 above – they should and could have been looking at 60%+ easily.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

            Jamie Black September 16, 2014 9:54 am
          • Why didn’t he? Quite simply because no party/campaign group is going to go public with splits in the camp when they are so close to the final vote.

            Jim Sillars still holds a lot of support from the more ‘hardcore’ nationalists (remember this is the same Sillars who has been openly critical of the current SNP and, in particular Alex Salmond’s leadership style and the backbenchers for not having the courage to speak out against him).

            There is no benefit to the ‘yes’ campaign in Salmond creating a split between the Sillars style nationalist and the Salmond style nationalist.

            There is of course huge hypocrisy in Salmond claiming the No campaign is focused on intimidation whilst he refuses to condemn exactly the same thing from within his own ranks however since when has politics not been full of hypocrites!

            As I said before Sillars is a dinosaur now. Regardless of the result on Thursday/Friday Scottish politics will be a more progressive and rational place with him, and others like him, well out of it. They offer very little for a country that will be keen to encourage inward investment and this alleged ‘fairer more just society’

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

            Integrity? September 16, 2014 11:26 am
    • I hadn’t heard about the swearing incident. Just looked it up. As far as I can see (unless there is more I didn’t see in the story) he made a remark about too many twitter posts making a twat and said people were pissed off with politicians. Now I don’t like Cameron one bit but I am going to find it hard to lose any sleep over that. Granted he should know better than to swear on radio – bit of a schoolboy error. But the chances of that affectiong how people might vote compared with a threat to use political power to get revenge on major corporations is minimal. I would wager Salmond would much rather Sillars had just sworn!

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

      Integrity? September 14, 2014 11:39 am Reply
  • Integrity, I was talking about his ‘don’t vote Yes just to give the Tories an Effin kicking’ remark. He made it last week whilst addressing staff at Scottish Widows ie on his much heralded day trip “to meet the Scottish people”.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 4

    Simon September 14, 2014 12:55 pm Reply
    • Apologies – wasn’t aware of that. I just googled David Cameron swearing and it came up with the story I referenced in my post.

      I actually agree with what he said but accept it was a stupid way of phrasing it. Vote Yes if you believe it is the right thing for Scotland and your view of what Scotland should be in the context of other nations but don’t vote Yes just because you don’t like Tories.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

      Integrity? September 14, 2014 1:01 pm Reply
    • Me thinks the swear box at No.10 might be overflowing at the moment.

      I have to say, I don’t see the big deal in Cameron saying “effing”. The guy has had a stressful week and he is human.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

      Crazy She-Bat September 14, 2014 1:02 pm Reply
      • Ha ha fair point CSB. Must admit I have said it three times in the past five minutes and that was just because I dropped my twix, then spilt my coffee and finally my wallet when trying to dig my ticket out to show the conductor on the train.

        Damn this unionist English built train and its rickety track with no clear direction.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1

        Integrity? September 14, 2014 1:09 pm Reply
      • I don’t see any big deal with him or anyone else doing so either CSB, what I do have a problem with is how in this instance it can surely only be taken one way which is insultingly contrived. It’s the first occasion I am aware of that he has said this in public. Just chance that a privately educated Etonian Tory let slip whilst pleading with the working classes to back him I wonder? I’ve no doubt every word is practiced and deliberate, one slip in his position and at this stage in this country could just be enough to tip the balance. You bet he has been briefed, and briefed to the max.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 5

        JnrTick September 15, 2014 2:47 am Reply
        • On R4 Today this morning there’s been a comment (from one of your despised BBC journalists, JT) observing that Cameron in Edinburgh the other day was definitely not delivering a carefully scripted speech – so, while he’d clearly thought hard about what he wanted to say, your claim that it was ‘insultingly contrived’ is a load of old cobblers.
          And, before you say anything, no – my political advisers didn’t script my last remark.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2

          Robert Wakeham September 15, 2014 7:44 am Reply
          • “On R4 Today this morning there’s been a comment (from one of your despised BBC journalists, JT)”

            Ahhhh. That’s cleared that up then, no dubiety whatsoever about it. Thank you.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 4

            JnrTick September 16, 2014 12:53 am
      • He either had enough control to not actually swear or had thought out carefully what he could say without offending.

        I suspect that it was just an impromptu remark in an emotional speech.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

        Lundavra September 15, 2014 1:55 pm Reply
  • Interesting admission from Alex Salmond this morning that only those individuals who are willing to support the SNP’s white paper on independence would be permitted to join Team Scotland.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 2

    John M September 14, 2014 1:43 pm Reply
    • Trying to make it seem more desirable than IKEA Family Card membership.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 3

      Robert Wakeham September 14, 2014 4:49 pm Reply
    • Can’t have it both ways John. We constantly hear people are expected to vote on a flawed prospectus…
      So, what’ll it be then? The SNP’s white paper or a future independent Scotland gradually shaped by the people who live here?

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 5

      JnrTick September 15, 2014 2:35 am Reply
      • The latter, without a doubt, but within a federal system rather than outright partition.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

        Robert Wakeham September 15, 2014 7:16 am Reply
  • Integrity/Crazy, sorry about the delay in getting back to you. My take on Cameron’s effin swearing is that it was as patronising and condescending at was deliberate. It was his pathetically puerile attempt to ingratiate himself and show that he was just ‘one of the boys’ at heart. Bollocks. There were at least three things wrong with this though, ‘Golden Davie boy comes from a rich family and privileged bwckground, he wasnt talking to a bunch of ordinary ‘Schemies fae Saughton’ he was talking to the office staff and Magement of Scottish Widowws and finally he was playing the ’emotional’ card that the politica pundits had identified earlier as beingly missing from the ‘no’ campaign up till that point.
    This was a carefully contrived political theatre and a nod the direction o the Scottish voter from Cameron on his day trip to Scotland ‘because nothing is moe important than this vote’.
    Aye right!
    PS Integrity, guess why you never read about it in the media? Because they decided not to make big spoash about the Prime minister swearing live on tv – but see if it had been Jim Sillars…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 7

    Simon September 14, 2014 11:16 pm Reply
    • I wouldn’t worry too much about the swear words from Better Together, there’ll be plenty more on Friday if it’s Yes or from the other lot if it’s No.

      I’d worry about the substance of the arguments between now and Thursday and consider whether, by voting Yes, I might be throwing out the baby, with the bath water.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2

      Andrew Argyle September 15, 2014 12:36 am Reply
  • I think this point sum’s up the coming days…
    James Naughtie BBC News Let me give you a very interesting statistic. There are now 4,285,000 people registered to vote. The largest electorate ever in Scotland. In the last month 118,000 people got in just before the registration deadline.
    Why?
    This is not a referendum for the chattering classes. This is a referendum for the “swithering” classes.
    “Swithering is a Scots word for an undecided state. It means to be uncertain or perplexed about what to do or choose.”

    The “swithering” masses will chose wisely, with their heads and not their hearts…progressive continuity will for 60+ million people will only come from a NO vote.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

    Karl Hughes September 15, 2014 7:30 am Reply
  • Laudable words but who said it?
    “Scotland’s deep commitment to social justice, which is not only asserted through our commitment to fairness within Scotland but our desire to be an outward-looking nation and good global citizen in a post-imperial world”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

    John in kintyre September 15, 2014 1:01 pm Reply
  • FAO NCH.
    Last Sunday (14th September 2014) I was in Dundee and I was listening to the Radio Tay talk in at 11am hosted by Ally Bally (Arthur Ballingall). The subject needless to say was the Referendum.
    People can listen to the TayTalk in through the Radio Tay AM website. I listened to the match commentary of the Dundee FC v Kilmarnock FC game on 9th August 2014 on TAY AM on my laptop.
    The first caller was a lady who is a committed NO supporter. She said that that she had been frightened to put a NO poster in her window in case a brick was thrown through her front window.
    This lady explained that last Saturday she was in the centre of Dundee and she received a NO badge at the Better Together stall with she attached to her coat.
    She then sat in a quiet corner of the City Square in Dundee with a friend who was in a wheelchair.
    A short time later a Yes supporter came up to her and shouted at the NO supporter “You are Scum”, “You are Scum”, “Go to England”. The lady and her friend were shocked by this outburst and members of the public sitting nearby could not believe what this Yes supporter was saying.
    Amazingly the Yes supporter was accompanied by his wife and a young child.
    I shudder to think what this child will be like when it is older with a father who resorts to intimidation like this because (he) the Yes supporter is trying to intimidate anyone who does not agree with his views.
    It is a pity that there were no police in nearby as the Yes supporter should have been arrested for breach of the peace and intimidation.
    We have the same problem in Islay where the Yes Islay supporters will not enter into meaningful discussion as it is their way or no way. If a NO voter tries to speak at a meeting they just shout them down.
    Fortunately when a person votes it is in secret and no one can be intimidated in the polling stations throughout Scotland.
    Well, I certainly hope this is the case.
    If Scotland becomes an independent country the YES Islay supporters and especially business owners are in for a very big shock if there is no currency union and the Scottish Government keeps using the pound under sterlingisation.
    It will serve them right if their businesses go bust because they cannot provide more than sufficient security to cover their overdrafts and loans.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

    Treble T September 16, 2014 3:22 pm Reply
  • IF. BY RUDYARD KIPLING

    If you can keep your head when all about you
    Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
    If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
    But make allowance for their doubting too;
    If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
    Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
    Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
    And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

    If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
    If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
    If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
    And treat those two impostors just the same;
    If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
    Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
    And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:

    If you can make one heap of all your winnings
    And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
    And lose, and start again at your beginnings
    And never breathe a word about your loss;
    If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
    To serve your turn long after they are gone,
    And so hold on when there is nothing in you
    Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’

    If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
    Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
    If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
    If all men count with you, but none too much;
    If you can fill the unforgiving minute
    With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
    Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
    And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!

    Whatever you vote tomorrow… vote with your head… do not be intimidated !

    I voted NO… Scotland is my home and will remain so whatever the outcome…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

    Karl Hughes September 17, 2014 9:34 am Reply

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