What now for Scotland?

Today Britain voted to leave the European Union. 60% of Argyll, and 62% of Scotland voted to remain. However a lower turnout here, along in other remain areas brings into question whether a more effective campaign would have altered the result and could reduce the legitimacy of calls for a second Scottish Independence referendum. Both points are moot however. We have a result; and calls for another referendum here will now be irresistible.

Scotland now has the choice of three paths – within the EU, or the UK, or independent of both.

Nicola Sturgeon has spoken saying that Scotland’s future is as part of the EU, a position supported by the polling figures. The question is how that statement will be translated into action. The first step is to safeguard our continuing membership of the EU if that is the will of the Scottish people, the next is to call a referendum.

Given the desire of a majority of Scots to be in some form of union it would seem strange now to go on our own. There are significant risks in terms of having to negotiate trade deals with the rest of the world. Thus I believe any referendum should be a straightforward choice – for leaving the EU along with the rest of the UK, or continuing with our membership of the EU.

Given the majorities in referenda in Scotland for staying in both the UK and EU, how will people decide between the two? We have cultural, historic and trade ties with both. There are advantages, and disadvantages with either.

However what is imperative that any referendum is held as quickly as possible – ideally this year, so that we can know as a country where our future lies.

We must allow business the security to invest and stabilise our economy and finances so that we can maintain our schools, hospitals and other public services, going forward.

Kieron Green

Kieron Green is the Independent Councillor for Oban North and Lorn and one of the five For Argyll readers who wrote on their personal views on EU membership before the Referendum.

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  • Are you suggesting that Scotland should consider staying in the EU whilst staying in the UK?

    This article sounds time me like is written by someone who prefers the union but quietly knows indy2 is inevitable but doesn’t want to say it.

    A second independence referendum is totally inevitable now. It’s just a matter of when. There won’t be a referendum on Scotland place in the EU. We have just had and the answer was very clear. Arguments about turnout are a red herring. If everyone in Scotland had voted the result would have been little different as a percentage .

    We will have indy2 referendum within two years and my prediction is somewhere in the region of a 60% yes vote. Last night’s decision is more than enough to swing enough people who were borderline in 2014.

    Tony Blair’s legacy as prime minister was a dubious/illegal war. Cameron’s will be the prime minister whose actions ultimately broke up the UK.

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    Integrity? June 24, 2016 4:43 pm Reply
    • Would normally agree if it was politics as usual.

      Certainly if Sturgeon can get a written agreement with the EU which effectively allows Scotland to stay a member of the EU if it voted for independence we will have indyref2 and a Yes vote. If the EU doesn’t offer such a reassurance I don’t think she will go for it as either way she loses! A No vote would mean the obvious and a Yes vote would leave an independent Scotland completely isolated. Neither very attractive for the SNP.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 4

      John M June 24, 2016 5:12 pm Reply
      • You make a fair point John. I suspect, and I’ll grant you its just a gut feeling, that the EU will be more sympathetic to Scotland’s case this time round than they would have been 18 months ago.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 7

        Integrity? June 24, 2016 5:41 pm Reply
        • It will be a good barometer of how much the EU want Scotland as a member. Not sure if they will though, Integrity.

          In terms of international law and the EU, the sovereign state is the UK. Constitutionally they may not be able to offer an agreement which is legally binding. Should be interesting though.

          When the Berlin wall fell West Germany was allowed to absorb East Germany, which avoided any need for a new application. Could they find a similar fix for Scotland, albeit in reverse. I’m not so sure.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1

          John M June 24, 2016 6:22 pm Reply
          • Whilst the Germany thing was different it does illustrate that the EU will find a way to implement special measures when it is deemed appropriate. I imagine that is what the SNP would be seeking.

            I doubt the rebate, or Scotland’s share of it, would be on the table though.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2

            Integrity? June 24, 2016 6:37 pm
          • That’s the difficult bit for the SNP. Whereas the unification of Germany took less than a year, Scotland (SG) would need to decide whether they are willing to commit an independent Scotland to full and unequivocal membership of the EU or whether they should dare argue for current opt outs or even some of them.

            Could they sell the Euro to us? Does Scotland want to be part of the Schengen agreement and it’s repercussions of sharing a border with a non-EU country. And as you say, the rebate would probably be a non starter.

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            John M June 24, 2016 6:53 pm
          • Could they sell the Euro to us? Does Scotland want to be part of the Schengen agreement and it’s repercussions of sharing a border with a non-EU country. And as you say, the rebate would probably be a non starter.

            I would oppose INdy2, but were it to happen, I would want Scotland to be a full EU member. In any case, I simply cannot imagine the EU even entertaining for a moment a ‘We want to join, but here are our terms’ conversation. It might be stretched on Schengen on account of avoiding a physical border between England and Scotland but not much else.

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            JB June 24, 2016 10:35 pm
    • Hello Integrity. I agree in part with your observations/predictions.
      I’m not so sure with your 60% victory for Scotland’s independence, be that within or outwith the EU.
      I’ve a feeling we have as supporters of indy wrung the cloth dry for now, two fairly entrenched sides. Time will shift this one way or the other although I suspect the United Kingdom has (as has the EU) served it’s time.
      I voted Leave, I’d confidently do so again and for imho valid rational and certainly not racist reasons as the lazy tend to claim.
      I’ve little sympathy for the man who played his part in ensuring Brexit won the day but agree he must ultimately hold the can and do the decent thing as Alex did.
      He, as did every other Remain and that includes oor Nicola it pains me to say, failed to engage in grown up conversation about the subject that brought us to an In/Out referendum – Schengen.
      We witnessed on televised EU debates during ‘Immigration’ sections the side-stepping or the boring race card used as a convenient way to avoid this admittedly hot potato. To be fair, the opportunity was there many times during debates for the proponents of Brexit to cajole more from those Remains who parroted the line, “I know immigration policy isn’t perfect, but …” then go on to advise us of the benefits of immigration. Why didn’t they tell us exactly what it is about immigration/Schengen that ‘isn’t perfect’? Brexiters aren’t allowed to talk of the impracticalities not to mention the fundamentally unfair long term results of Schengen We don’t feel the effects of immigration as our neighbours in England, so no surprises Scotland’s vote differed to England’s.
      It genuinely gives me no please to say Cameron and the proponents of Remain got precisely what their lack of courage deserved.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 8

      JnrTick June 25, 2016 1:30 am Reply
      • And the difference between xenophobia and racism is?

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 6

        John M June 25, 2016 11:30 am Reply
        • Yawn.
          Address the concerns John and never mind the boring smears please.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

          JnrTick July 2, 2016 4:58 pm Reply
          • Fair enough JnrTick. No restriction on here, so what are “the impracticalities not to mention the fundamentally unfair long term results of Schengen”?

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

            John M July 2, 2016 6:30 pm
          • Oh where to start?
            Tbh John, I’ve exhausted the arguments for some time now elsewhere, besides, they are all moot points now. I say moot points because I now believe we as voters of Leave have saved Europe in undermining the foundations of it, leading the way giving other Member States the confidence to regain their independence, in turn controlling borders and all the benefits this permits. At long long last the UK having a positive influence on something!
            Never thought I’d hear myself saying this but well done Farage for his noble and determined pursuit of self determination done achieved against the sort of UK establishment influenced propaganda I witnessed as a Yes voter during our own referendum here in Scotland – I doth my cap to anyone who has the courage to ‘steer their own ship’ and to belief in a people’s potential and abilities to decide what is and isn’t right for them and the future of others.
            North Britain soon to become a unique identifiable independent Scotland next?

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            JnrTick July 2, 2016 8:03 pm
          • What do you see as the benefits of the EU being dissolved and all members returning to individual sovereign states? Still not quite sure of the benefits of securing our borders, permit’s what?

            To be fair I’ve heard quite a few people commenting how they feel Farage presented himself well during the debate. Did you not previously detest him though? What did he say different this time?

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            John M July 2, 2016 8:33 pm
      • Jnrtick

        Like indy1 it was a campaign packed with untruths from both sides and it further demonstrated that our politicians will say anything to hoodwink the public to voting their way. We are already seeing the Remain camp back pedalling on two of the claims they pedalled relentlessly in order to get votes.

        I think you’re pessimistic in terms of the number of previous NO voters that this will swing. Hardly scientific I know but I have been very surprised at the number of friends of mine who have already said they will now vote yes, some of them who were staunch No voters before. However I’m not basing this view on what a few of my mates say! There is just an inherent logic that such an issue is bound to cause a degree of swing toward Yes and we know that swing doesn’t need to be substantial.

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        Integrity? June 25, 2016 11:31 am Reply
  • Apologies for a stack of typos! Stubby fingers on small phone.

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    Integrity? June 24, 2016 4:44 pm Reply
  • The ukippy’s and brexiters have walked into giving inevitable INDEPENDENCE for Scotland.

    Thanks guy’s you have played a blinder

    Now can the right wing loon’s head off to farage land

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 17

    No Cheese Here June 24, 2016 5:38 pm Reply
  • It would seem our erstwhile friends down south have been hoisted by their own rope.
    Scotland now can free ourselves from this Westminster insanity.
    Before I get popped by our union friends on here,I would advise lateral thinking and join us in returning to a Country that is outward looking and its laws based on citizen equality.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 17

    A.Salmon June 24, 2016 6:41 pm Reply
  • Nicola got seriously caught out. She like so many thought the outcome would be to stay in the EU so she made the promises necessary to keep her followers in line i.e. that Scotland would seek to leave the UK and join the EU should the referendum result be to leave. You gotta laugh ! Now she has to put her words into practice – help ! ! ! Scotland – a separate country trading with the EU all by itself ? What would our exports be to make it all worthwhile – whisky ! What would be our imports – huge ! Balance of payments utterly catastrophic – dream on. Of course there is always Salmond’s oil money. Had to laugh at her press conference this morning – asked standard questions which received a politicians reply. One journalist said did she realise there would be an actual physical manned border between England and Scotland – “Oh well – that’s the sort of thing that will have to discussed” – and very many more Nicola !

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 6

    Malcolm Kirk June 24, 2016 7:21 pm Reply
  • What now?
    Scotland quickly gets a good relationship with EU.
    Scotland calls a referendum and votes out of UK
    UK exits EU
    Scotland becomes the de-facto English speaking nation remaining in the EU and business, opportunity and EU money washes into Scotland as the ‘safe haven’.

    I say this as a no voter in the last Scottish Referendum.
    I cannot believe what has happened today. Little England has done the most stupid thing.
    From a strong no, I’m now seeing a genuine case for a yes in a Scottish Referendum but ONLY IF ongoing membership of the EU can be a cast iron pre-agreed deal with the EU.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 13

    Jerry McIver June 24, 2016 7:21 pm Reply
  • Great post. A lot of hope and courage written in this post,Mr.McIver.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 9

    A.Salmon June 24, 2016 7:46 pm Reply
  • So that’s the way you see an independent Scotland surviving – “EU money washes into Scotland”. What happens when the social works dept of the EU runs out of money or are you not thinking that far ahead.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 6

    Malcolm Kirk June 24, 2016 7:46 pm Reply
    • Ah,we are back to the sad old ditty,too wee,too poor and too stupid!
      This ditty could easily apply to the mindset of the little imperialist England.
      I think Scotland’s people can do better than that.
      Once we achieve Independence again,let’s hope all people from these Islands are,with an open and healthy mindset ,come to Scotland to take root. They will be most welcome.
      As for you,Mr.Kirk,can you not find it in your soul to be a better human being?

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 14

      A.Salmon June 24, 2016 7:55 pm Reply
      • You must know a lot of bad people if all it takes is for them to disagree with SNP policies.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 5

        Malcolm Kirk June 24, 2016 8:43 pm Reply
    • I think England has chosen to set us on a very uncertain and potentially dangerous path. We have always had a rocky relationship but being part of ‘the club’ has obliged our European neighbours and fellow members to tolerate and recognise to listen, engage and work collaboratively with us.
      Being outside ‘the club’, the other 27 nations have no such obligation and the choice of 17m people here has already unsettled hundreds of millions of people across Europe with the uncertainty created. And for what? Little England doesn’t like a few ‘foreigners’ here. A knee jerk reaction against a situation which has little to do with the EU but everything to do with the domestic elected government.
      Hard to get school places? EU doesn’t build Schools, the Government and local authorities do.
      Can’t get a doctors appointment? EU doesn’t run hospitals or train doctors, the Government has control over medical training, pay and investment in healthcare facilities.
      Can’t buy a house because prices are too high? EU doesn’t control the supply of houses or set planning and building rules to allow investment in property but each of us has for 30 years been chasing fat profits on house sales when we sell, driving up house prices and domestic Government has allowed banks to lend on ever looser terms to satisfy this.

      Asked a yes or no question and it’s very easy to blame Europe for all the ills. Look at the interviews with ‘people’ in the streets. How many can barely string a sentence together and unquestioningly repeat soundbite statements when it’s obvious they have no comprehension of the complexity of our relationship with Europe or the huge positives the relationship has brought us.

      I’m not suggesting its a left or right issue – both political colours have been in power causing this.

      I am genuinely worried for the instability we have unleashed and the myriad unintended consequences that will follow.

      Already, the deal with French at Calais has seen them pushing to move border control to the UK, not French side. It’s now our problem. Who’d blame them.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 2

      Jerry McIver June 25, 2016 10:32 am Reply
  • The last thing Scotland needs at this time is another referendum. The Scottish Government needs to concentrate on ‘running the country’, which seems to have been ‘on the back burner’ for the last few years. After all we voted as part of the United Kingdom and not as a separate country.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 7

    'Felicity' June 24, 2016 8:29 pm Reply
    • Felicity
      Didn’t some people vote for the UK in Europe. I’m sure I remember the ruk’s stating that to vote for Scots independence would result in the big negative of being thrown out of the EU.

      Thought you would remember that. Indy ref in 2 years as we watch the neo-cons fight each other in England for power and the Blairites bring loyalty to a new low as they beat up Corbyn. Many labour folk will now decide to vote for YES this time around.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 13

      No Cheese Here June 25, 2016 1:15 am Reply
    • What you must remember Felicity is that SNP policies are not based on sensible and reasoned policies for the good of Scotland. They are entirely based on a hate for the English and in the case of the many English people living in Scotland, an inbred hate for all things Tory. Hence all the promises after the Independence referendum about how they would honour the votes of the majority and accept that we were a full part of the UK, have gone out the door. Another chance to put the boot into Westminster has presented itself, so it will be exploited to the full.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 3

      Malcolm Kirk June 25, 2016 7:21 am Reply
      • A stupid post if ever I saw one. You are not living in the real world. You must be a kipper.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 14

        A.Salmon June 25, 2016 8:25 am Reply
        • Nothing fishy about me mate – neither a kipper or a salmon

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          Malcolm Kirk June 25, 2016 9:12 am Reply
    • I agree that the last thing Scotland needs is another referendum in the near future, however the current mess in England more or less guarantees that we will get one, for self-preservation. That said, the FM should keep calm and try to hold all options open, including a Shengen fudge – that’s if Schengen survives – to avoid a hard border with England and all its difficulties on both sides.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1

      Arthur Blue June 25, 2016 1:35 pm Reply
  • It might not have been clear from the article but I am currently undecided in the event of there being a second independence referendum in Scotland. For me a lot will depend on the deals being pursued by both the UK and Scottish Governments with the EU.
    .
    As I said in my piece on the EU referendum though – I am European, so that should give people a good idea of where my heart lies on this.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 4

    Kieron Green June 24, 2016 9:30 pm Reply
    • Admittedly I might have misread your article Kieron. I thought you were suggesting a further referendum for the popylation of Scotland to determine their desire for a role in the EU, or otherwise. However on reading it again I think you might be suggesting something different.

      I don’t consider myself British, European or anything to be honest. Maybe because I’ve moved around a bit but I think more because I see nationalities and excessive national pride as a bit of an oddity. I think last night’s vote was a sad event from the perspective of people moving away from border restricted integration and tolerance.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

      Integrity? June 24, 2016 9:56 pm Reply
    • I am a Scottish European but choosing not to pull & share sovereignty doesn’t make any of us any less European.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

      JnrTick June 25, 2016 1:39 am Reply
  • The big question from last time remains unanswered. If Scotland chose to depart from the UK, which currency will it adopt? If Scotland wants to go a separate path because it profoundly disagrees with the path that rUK is choosing, it makes no sense at all to try to bind itself to the currency of a country (rUK) going down an economic path it disagrees with.
    Not so much an elephant in the room as a mammoth on steroids.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

    IslandDweller June 25, 2016 7:23 am Reply
    • “If Scotland chose to depart from the UK” should read “if the SNP choose that Scotland should depart from the UK”. Remember the 55% / 45%

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 2

      Malcolm Kirk June 25, 2016 7:58 am Reply
      • Scots aren’t going anywhere. Unlike the UKIP farage types who keep claiming they are packing their suitcases and heading off. — Must make them migrants?

        Indy 2 YES for sure. The ruk’s are going into the oblivion. No friends no influence. Tata steel buy out in Wales and England not going ahead because of brexit. Maybe Wales will ask for another vote.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 10

        No Cheese Here June 25, 2016 5:35 pm Reply
      • 55% / 45% when the choice was out and isolation or in a United Kingdom as part of a United Europe.

        Sorry, much as I’m the first to have wanted to keep what we had until Thursday, the vote has changed things.

        It now may be a choice of Scotland in a United Europe or Scotland in an Isolated UK. Ultimately we will always share a common landmass and language with England that will underpin a strong continuing relationship but the question is now does remaining in the EU provide a competitive advantage over what England can offer? We already hear international banks are looking to move. Edinburgh or Frankfurt, the appeal of Edinburgh may be strong.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 5

        Jerry McIver June 25, 2016 8:11 pm Reply
  • I voted to remain but the European Community I voted to remain in has changed already, dramatically and not for the better by the UK vote and were there to another referendum on EU membership for Scotland tomorrow I don’t know how I would vote.

    Given the difficulties experienced by being members of the single currency I suspect that not many Scottish people would warm to having the Euro imposed upon them and “hard” border controls etc probably wouldn’t appeal either.

    It is therefore important that the Scottish Government does not take the view that the 62% of those who voted to remain in the European Community on Thursday would vote in the same way if asked again, because it is an entirely different set of circumstances. There have already been, to use the First Minister’s phrase “material changes”.

    So we need an honest and strategic response to the changed set of circumstances and not an opportunistic one.

    There clearly is some justification for putting a second Independence Referendum back on the agenda, but a very significant number of questions need to be answered and answered with absolute clarity before the Scottish people could reasonably be expected to make a mature and informed judgement about how they should vote.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2

    Speaking Frankly June 25, 2016 8:12 am Reply
    • I believe Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP have backed the wrong horse here, however if I’m wrong, that’s possibly a good thing.

      I say that because, despite the UK media not focussing on Europe properly, the EU is on a cliff edge with many different factors ready to come to the fore and push it over.

      Most of these will come to pass in the next two years – by which time the SNP may be attempting to sell Indy2/EU against the backdrop of a very troubled EU – one that more countries are looking to leave. I suggested this to my MP but he dismissed it out of hand as a concern.

      Now, if Brexit has the effect of driving real, deep and tangible change, then I could be wrong. Given how desperate the EU leaders are to kick us out quickly, I’m not sure that will happen. They are so absorbed in keeping things going they can’t see the wood for the trees.

      Best comment of the other night came from Mr Rees Mogg who said ‘If when you leave a club it wants to kneecap you for doing so, I don’t think that’s a club anyone would want to be part of’.

      How the EU responds to this is how many Scots judge them against the context of EU/Indy2 and so far, the signs are not good.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 3

      JB June 25, 2016 1:50 pm Reply
      • Why wouldn’t they want us out as soon as possible Jamie?

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        John M June 25, 2016 1:54 pm Reply
        • The exit should take as much time as is needed, and so far, no-one knows how long that is. To say ‘as quickly as possible’ without quantifying why is irresponsible. They say to avoid incertainty, but if the process is rushes, there will be long term impacts.

          Rushing it is in no-ones interests. At the end of the day, the UK ain’t going anywhere, so let’s make sure we both get it right this time and whatever settlement is agreed, not only does it suit both sides as best possible, but it is sustainable and brings stability for the long term.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2

          JB June 25, 2016 2:13 pm Reply
          • Starting to develop a bad case of selective hearing JB. The EU has made it very clear why they want Article 50 invoked as quickly as possible. The process clearly states two years from beginning to end.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 4

            John M June 25, 2016 2:50 pm
          • Not at all John. They state they want to end uncertainty – the UK Govt. should not invoke Article 50 until it has agreed with the 4 UK leaders the position it will adopt across the massive range of issues. To invoke Article 50 now without those positions agreed would be reckless.

            Surely you agree?

            Regarding the ‘your leaders’ comment for brexiteers – thankfully they played no part in my decision and in fact, I had nothing to do with the campaign at all apart from my tiny contributions here. I would be happy if they were no-where near the negotiating table, which might sound off. My hope is that Nicola Sturgeon, amongst others, can step up to the mark, put aside tabloid politics and be the statesperson that Alex Salmond never could.

            The negotiations have not yet begun – once the hysteria (for that is what it is) has died down, we need the best politicans and civil servants in the country to get down to business – not politics – and work everything out.

            If we can’t hope for that, we might as well pack up and talk about the weather.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

            JB June 25, 2016 11:02 pm
          • The time for careful thought is before you make the leap. Halfway down requires quicker thinking than most are capable of.

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            Arthur Blue July 1, 2016 9:42 am
  • What if Scotland enjoyed the same degree of fiscal autonomy as the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man.
    Might it then be possible to retain the existing relationship to the EU?
    If so, it would surely eliminate the use of British departure as justification for full independence.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 5

    Robert Wakeham June 25, 2016 10:26 am Reply
    • This will be totally unacceptable to the Scottish people. No way will we tolerate a Right wing Junta having any say in our democracy.
      Just for the record,there is unprecedented support gathering for Independence.
      Even the Daily Record are supporting. Little England is on its own now.
      The Union expired yesterday,just get used to that fact.
      As the coming week unfolds,watch the screaming as prices go up,interest rates go up.
      You were warned.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 9

      A.Salmon June 25, 2016 10:41 am Reply
      • Totally unacceptable? You’ve asked them? How did that go?

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        JB June 25, 2016 1:04 pm Reply
  • This is an extract from Boris Johnson’s speech yesterday. I find it perfectly reasonable and forward looking. Amongst very many other things I especially look forward to the day we don’t have to pay MEPs £45,000 expenses for which they do not have to produce a single receipt.

    We all know people we don’t particularly like for one reason or another but that doesn’t mean they are not good at what they do, and so whatever you think of Boris there is little doubt that at this time particularly he would be excellent as our PM..

    “I want to speak directly to the millions of people who did not vote for this outcome,especially young people who feel that this decision involves somehow pulling up the drawbridge because I think the very opposite is true.

    We cannot turn our backs on Europe. We are part of Europe, our children and our grandchildren will continue to have a wonderful future as Europeans,travelling to the continent,understanding the languages and the cultures that make up our common European civilisation,continuing to interact with the peoples of the other countries in a way that is open and friendly and outward looking.

    And I want to reassure everyone Britain will continue to be a great European power,leading discussions on defence and foreign policy and the work that goes on to make our world safer.

    But there is simply no need in the 21st century to be part of a federal government in Brussels that is imitated nowhere else on earth.It was a noble idea for its time but is no longer right for this country.”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 5

    Malcolm Kirk June 25, 2016 11:20 am Reply
    • The European ‘Parliament’ makes our own MPs and MSPs look like amateurs at wrongdoing

      A well-timed Freedom of Information request into the European Commission’s internal disciplinary committee has revealed the extent of misconduct cases investigated in the last year. No names are disclosed naturally, but this is the sort of thing that goes on in Brussels:

      Staff rebuked for sexual harassment
      The abuse of diplomatic status to smuggle in duty free for a friend
      Trying to dodge tax by supply of a fake document
      ‘Passive’ corruption
      Collusion in a rent scam
      A staff member operating as an industry insider and changing reports
      The use of a de facto ‘company car’ from an outside interest
      Employment of family members as a quid pro quo
      Moonlighting
      A person AWOL for most of the year (while running their own business)
      Sleeping off campus

      Despite all this, only 16 members of staff received cautions

      http://order-order.com/2016/06/21/sex-pests-shirkers-corruption-eu-commission/

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 5

      Lundavra June 25, 2016 11:30 am Reply
      • Farage used public money to fund his hideous political Nazi party.
        Your comments on this issue would be gratefully received.

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        A.Salmon June 25, 2016 1:04 pm Reply
        • Was a crime or offence committed? Can you share the evidence and output of that? Once I have that information then I’d more than happily comment. If he misused funds, then that’s not acceptable but I missed the report.

          In your own time.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 6

          JB June 25, 2016 1:06 pm Reply
          • Touchy?
            Farage is a disgusting fraud,as is his Nazi party.

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            A.Salmon June 25, 2016 3:39 pm
  • It is becoming abundantly clear that many who voted NO in 2014 will switch their vote to YES. The reasoning behind their change of heart is the England has left the UK.
    There will be serious financial consequences to all in the Uk. This has been amplified today by news that the proposed buyers of the Tata steel operation have pulled out,stating the EU departure is behind their reasoning.
    I hope that Nicola Sturgeon expedites withdrawal procedures as soon as practically possible before headless tangible damage is done to the Scottish economy.
    As for the rest of us,we will all feel fiscal pain very shortly.
    Thanks for that,Torys and The Nazi Farage.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 9

    A.Salmon June 25, 2016 4:43 pm Reply
  • Must be quite confusing and maybe a little bit embarrassing if you are a brexiteer. You have just won a monumental victory endorsing your beliefs and values yet your leaders are nowhere to be seen.
    At a time when the world markets are in turmoil and looking for some guidance on how the new UK will operate, where are they?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 3

    John M June 25, 2016 9:11 pm Reply
    • Think of wayward kids who’ve thrown a bike over a bridge onto the road below – and then watched it go through the windscreen of a car that ‘appeared from nowhere’ – they’ve scarpered till the fuss dies down.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 3

      Robert Wakeham June 25, 2016 9:23 pm Reply
  • HSBC have removed 1000 jobs from London and transferred to Paris. This is just the beginning.
    Scotland can stop this now.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 8

    A.Salmon June 25, 2016 10:18 pm Reply
    • That’s your third lie in as many days. This is completely untrue.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 5

      JB June 25, 2016 11:04 pm Reply
      • Take off the blinkers Jamie, he/she isn’t too far off the mark.

        They have announced they will relocate large numbers of personnel to Paris if the UK comes out the single market. As staying in the Single Market would require the UK adhering to freedom of movement, it’s probably fair to say HSBC will be relocating a large number of jobs abroad as a result of the brexit vote.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4

        John M June 25, 2016 11:29 pm Reply
        • John, respectfully, what I did was take A.Salmons claim and go look for a source.

          What I found was that he/she took a story of what might happen and then translated it, not into what will happen, but what has happened.

          That is lying, that is deceit. That is exactly the type of behaviour the Leave campaign have and are being accused of – and yet when a/salmon does the same, are you defending it John?

          Nothing to do with blinkers, just checking the easily obtainable facts.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 4

          JB June 26, 2016 8:51 am Reply
          • Apologies Jamie, didn’t mean to be so blunt. For clarity, the content of the post is wrong, a lie. HSBC have not moved jobs to Paris immediately, they are now in the implementation stage of doing so, as are many others.

            “Banks have already begun to take action to shift operations out of the UK, with the governor of France’s central bank warning on Saturday that Britain’s financial services groups were at risk of losing their right to operate across the EU.” – FT

            How do you feel David Cameron should handle the EU leaders meeting this week, as the EU have clarified Article 50 is invoked in one of two ways? – “It could either be a letter to the president of the European Council or an official statement at a meeting of the European Council duly noted in the official records of the meeting.”

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

            John M June 26, 2016 11:16 am
  • Surely the brexiters are all in holiday in Torreliminos with the pals getting stuck into the local cuisine ie yorksheer poods and meat and 2 veg.( canned)

    R u there Ethel? Porforfor

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 8

    No Cheese Here June 26, 2016 11:21 am Reply
  • It was interesting on the Andrew Marr show this morning that Nicola Sturgeon answered virtually every question with ” I’ll do whatever seems best for Scotland.” A political answer avoiding definition, but fairly good. I think we can assume that the answer to all the present questions can’t be answered in the next 24 hours ( as attempted by the media and subscribers here ) but certainly more likely over the next 24 months. If England and Wales in representing the UK achieve a satisfactory level of involvement with Europe,whilst expanding into other world wide markets, then Nicola will no doubt be on side and Scotland will remain part of the UK. So no Indy ref 2. Lets face it, talk of Scotland being part of the EU as a separate wee country is not credible !

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2

    Malcolm Kirk June 26, 2016 11:39 am Reply
    • Wee Country? We’re not much smaller than England and far, far bigger when you include our sea areas.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

      Murdoch MacKenzie July 1, 2016 12:23 pm Reply
      • Do you mean the sea areas that Scotland wants to see remain European?

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

        Robert Wakeham July 1, 2016 12:58 pm Reply
        • I think you will find that Scotland’s sea areas were bargained away for deals that benefited the City by Ted, three days in bed, Heath.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

          Murdoch MacKenzie July 3, 2016 10:14 am Reply
  • There will be many,on this site,who have financial portfolios. They will be quietly relieved that we have a Stateswoman that s Nicola Sturgeon.
    Head and shoulders above the dross that occupies Government and opposition in Westminster

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 9

    A.Salmon June 26, 2016 12:12 pm Reply
    • Nonsense as usual – she’s just letting others do all the hard work whilst she sits on the sidelines.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 3

      Malcolm Kirk June 26, 2016 1:00 pm Reply
      • Rumour has it that the Hubble Telescope has been deployed to find the Chancellor!
        Malcolm your smoke and mirrors game has been exposed!

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 8

        A.Salmon June 26, 2016 1:15 pm Reply
  • Kieron Green

    Kieron Green is the Independent Councillor for Oban North and Lorn
    Is he really? I thought he was labour or is it labour corbyn or labour eagle!! He works for Walsh now. On facebook “..I was surprised but delighted to have been put forward for the position of Policy Lead for Health and Social Care Integration in Argyll and Bute.”

    of course he hunts with the hounds ..http://www.insidemoray.com/former-moray-labour-candidate-causes-a-political-stir-in-oban/

    Next year what coat will he wear?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 4

    No Cheese Here July 3, 2016 12:08 am Reply
  • So, not only do we have the Greek debt crisis about to strike again any week (how long can they postpone I wonder?), but we now know that Italian banks are ready to collapse – but the EU will not let the governments bail them out. That’ll be popular with the electorate 0 but business? I think not.

    Add to that the delayed decision on Spain and Portugal.

    Here https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/18/european-commission-spain-portugal-budget-deficits-pierre-moscovici
    and now here

    http://www.brusselstimes.com/eu-affairs/5973/the-european-commission-officially-declares-spain-and-portugal-over-budget

    On top of that the CETA trade agreement (Canada/EU) is going nowhere (http://www.brusselstimes.com/belgium/5981/brussels-parliament-makes-known-that-it-will-not-ratify-the-present-version-of-ceta).

    As for TTIP, most experts reckon that’s a dead duck too.

    Meanwhile in Britain, BRexit means we’re keen to do trade deals with countries the EU couldn’t close or wouldn’t let us trade with.

    This is the chance for the UK to strike whilst the iron is hot and really put our economy into overdrive.

    The opportunities just keep coming.

    So ‘What now?’ for Scotland – get our politicians to play their part, work with the new UK government and reap the rewards for our economy, our people and our country.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

    JB July 11, 2016 8:27 pm Reply
    • And the fearty nationalists (if I may call them that)?

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

      Robert Wakeham July 12, 2016 4:02 pm Reply
      • They’ll get on board with Brexit – or be left behind. Let’s say I’m right and the EU project becomes seriously unstable. The SNP say Brexit is a material change, and therefore IndyRef2 could be back on the cards because of that. But what if Brexit is better for the UK and Scotland?

        Nicola Sturgeon has already setout her Pro-EU stall and can hardly campaign to be out the UK and out the EU – she’s too far down the line.

        My feeling is that it will all be quietly shelved until Brexit is complete – a ‘wait and see’ stance. Maybe the EU will thrive but even then – why leave your biggest market?

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

        JB July 12, 2016 10:22 pm Reply
        • I’d like to think that the SNP want to remain in Europe to support it’s reform from within. I’m not very certain that they do or that internal reform is possible. The whole edifice has to be brought down. Once they turn on Spain, Portugal and Italy, while avoiding French issues it will all start looking grim for many Europeans, especially in the “outer regions”
          I voted for Brexit because I saw it as a strike against the un-elected law makers of the EU elite. Shaking up the UK was an added bonus. We may hurt for a while but the result could be worth it.
          A European family of nations, including Scotland, controlled by it’s people, is what we need. What we have now is a rapidly expanding political construct whose raison d’être seems to be the encircling of Russia.
          The elite have decided to run with the Brexit hand that the UK electorate dealt them. We’re getting Trident and Boeing defense planes thrust upon us, it’s going to be like the fifties again.
          What Scotland needs is an Independence movement to be free of the UK and the EU, free to negotiate the terms of any trade, defense or free access agreements that may be presented in the future.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

          Murdoch MacKenzie July 13, 2016 8:43 am Reply

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