Vote SNP twice for indy; and vote Conservatives on the List for the union

Until Scotland’s constitutional position is put beyond question the country’s economy remains in stasis and its people warily, often bitterly divided.

One way or the other this has to be settled.

The Scottish Election tomorrow, 5th May 2016, presents every intelligent voter with a choice of two options only, the choice depending on their stance on indy versus the union.

The choice lies between giving both votes [the constituency vote and the regional list vote] to the SNP; and giving the List vote at least to the Scottish Conservatives.

The SNP are asking for both votes for everyone who supports them – an overt campaigning position to see both the constituency votes and the regional list votes of party and indy supporters coming their way.

It is obvious that the SNP are going to storm the vote tomorrow and gain yet another majority in the Scottish Parliament that was designed to be impossible. The issue is not therefore whether or not they will win; but what proportion of both votes will be cast in their favour, for independence.

The Scottish Conservatives are campaigning to lead the opposition – and doing so as the only party to be totally unequivocal in their support for the British union and for Scotland’s continuing membership of that union.

They are asking – rightly – for every union supporter to give them their List vote. In truth it doesn’t matter which non-SNP party union support in the constituency election. The SNP is likely to win them all.

The positive here is that non-Conservatives can feel comfortable in supporting their traditional parties in the constituency vote while casting their Regional List Vote for the Conservatives, often against established habit.

The indy option: why it has to be two votes for the SNP

If you want to see an independent Scotland, there is no intelligent alternative at present to casting both votes for the SNP.

The party and its cautious leadership need to see the extent of support for independence as well as for itself – and the county needs to be shown that as well.

For indy/SNP voters, this is not a question of making every vote count towards seats – if not for the SNP, then for parties vaguely aligned to it – RISE and the Greens.

It is a question of demonstrating the strength of support for indy and for the SNP –  whether or  not some votes are ‘wasted’ in not supporting seats on the Regional List vote which the constituency uber-dominant SNP will struggle to take as well.

The school of thought that says SNP and indy supporters should give their List votes to RISE or the Greens argues that this strategy would create a more textured but sympathetic  ‘opposition’.

This is wholly misguided – and misguiding – on three counts:

  • Indy is not yet won – and the only party in a position to create the opportunity for it to be won is the SNP.
  • The  notion of creating a textured opposition  [which would not be an opposition in the full sense of that word anyway] – before indy is won is a monumental folly. This sort of nuanced strategic voting is for afterwards, not before. At present, helping RISE and Green candidates into post for this reason would simply reduce the certainty of support for indy-at-all-costs, when the opportunity arose.
  • Casting List SNP/indy votes for RISE or the Greens in the present situation can only devalue the currency of indy and of the SNP.

The single – and largely improbable – exception to this is the case of a voter supporting the SNP as a party of government but not supportive of indy. In this case, a sophisticated voter of this ilk would cast their constituency vote for the SNP; and their Regional List vote for the Scottish Conservatives: the SNP for the government of Scotland and the Conservatives as the best security for the retention of Scotland in the Union.

Editorially, For Agyll is opposed to indy and in favour of continuing membership of the British union. We changed to this position during the indyref 1 campaign, on evidenced economic reasons for the stability and growth of Scotland.

That position has been reinforced by observing the philosophical limitations of nationalism and its endemic totalitarian tendencies, which we regard with substantial apprehension.

But, in the intellectual objectivity we strive to make the centre of what we do, we have to support the sense of the SNP’s call for its supporters to cast both their votes in its favour tomorrow.

Nothing else makes sense of the current situation for those who want to see an independent Scotland; and anything less will weaken the case.

Staying in the Union: why it has to be all List votes for the Scottish Conservatives

Any party whose declared policy is to support Scotland’s continuing membership of the British union cannot possibly justify permitting its elected representatives – elected on their party’s policies – the freedom to campaign without penalty for Scottish independence.

The Scottish Conservatives are, as they claim, the sole party that has shown no equivocation in its support for the union and for Scotland’s membership of that union. This makes them the only wholly reliable bulwark for that position, now and into the future.

The other two traditional mainstream parties, Scottish Labour and the Liberal Democrats, have each seen their leaders declare in public that they would allow their MSPs to campaign for independence.

Both, as visibly failing parties, have done this in a desperate attempt to try to shore up the element of their own party political support which has been brought to support independence.

The Scottish Conservatives are the only party to have the courage to set out their stall as unwaveringly supportive of the union. That courage too, that avoidance of political caveating for electoral advantage, is itself supportable.

Influenced for virtually a lifetime by socialist thinking, it is not comfortable to come to the conclusion that Scottish Labour is at present insupportable – but that is the straightforward fact.

Scottish Labour will for some time be pre-occupied with resolving its own direction, with its evolving 21st century identity, with casting off the crippling carapace of its past – and present – dominated by various power brokers informed by a sense of entitlement.

That preoccupation will pull Labour’s attention inwards its internal division – which is unlikely to be resolved for some time and as yet has no detectable direction of travel.

That leaves the newly focused Scottish Conservatives, who have had the most lucid and consistent election campaign, as the only  party capable of delivering the considered and politically coherent weight of opposition that Scotland itself will  need in the term ahead – in which:

  • the First Minister-to-be-again has made it clear that the independence issue will be back on the formal agenda – with the Scottish Conservatives the only party fully opposed to that;
  • the SNP government will commence its management of much of Scotland’s tax regime, with uncertain outcomes – and with the Scottish Conservatives opposed to anything that will see any Scot pay more tax here than they would pay were they living in England;
  • the SNP government remains committed to taking to full implementation, in August of this year, 2016, the illiberal, inoperable and compulaory Named Person imposition of state guardianship for every child in Scotland from birth to legal maturity – with the Scottish Conservatives the only party not to have voted to support its passage into law; and the only party to have made opposition to it a full campaign issue.

All of these are issues that touch lives across the political spectrum; and will support those who want to see Scotland stay in the British union but who are also not natural Conservatives in giving them their Regional List vote tomorrow.

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Related Articles & Comments

  • OK SNP + SNP it is.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 18

    Jams O'Donnell May 4, 2016 6:30 pm Reply
  • Had another look at the SNP manifesto. I see them liberally sprinkling more money around everywhere, more than anyone else it seems, but they also make no mention of tax increases. Where is it all coming from? The magic money tree?

    The others:
    Conservatives want better management to make savings to fund their plans
    Labour asking us to pay more to fund their plans
    Lib Dems asking us to pay more to fund their plans
    Greens asking the higher earners for more and a new property tax
    Even UKIP talk about an intermediate income tax band

    It’s what isn’t said that you have to watch.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 19 Thumb down 5

    Jerry McIver May 4, 2016 7:40 pm Reply
    • Jerry McIver should be on Jerry Springer?

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 15

      Keitho May 4, 2016 9:15 pm Reply
  • That’s very nice,as Mrs Brown would say.

    Vote SNP if you want Indi but remember you’re too wee,to stupit and to poor.
    You are not right in the head,Mini!!!

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 21

    Hugh Jazz May 4, 2016 8:10 pm Reply
  • Vote SNP for the best government available with the best people available.
    .
    Voting Tory is not an answer to Scotland’s needs as we watch David Cameron’s government continuing to punish the least well off.
    .
    Tory and Labour competing for second place is their true position.
    .
    Libdems deserve to be where they are, bottom wrung.
    .
    SNP 1 and 2 for me. Vote SNP 1 and 2 best for Scotland.
    .

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 20

    Keitho May 4, 2016 8:58 pm Reply
  • I think the people will vote tommorow for the SNP. Not because they are the independence party, we all know that,but because they are a party of sound governance committed to making the best out of the current constitutional settlement. Yes for the Indy merchants among us we wish to rush forward. But under Sturgeon we will move forward taking the people with us. There is no side to this. The people are at the heart of SNP policy. Tomorrow will tell what the people think. No smear, but a decision by the people. And I think it will be SNP.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 22

    willie May 4, 2016 9:38 pm Reply
    • Fine post Willie, again..
      .
      VOTE SNP TO BEST REPRESENT ALL OF SCOTLAND.
      .
      No other party has the best interests Scotland as its core.
      .

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 18

      Keitho May 4, 2016 10:25 pm Reply
    • So you’re happy with 10 bed closures in Oban hospital, 4 in Campbeltown and 4 in Lochgilphead?

      Locals traveling further for care? Job losses?

      I think it’s despicable to keep this hidden until after the election.

      Trust the SNP? You must be joking.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

      Bob May 5, 2016 6:55 pm Reply
  • Just checked all bookies sites.
    SNP Majority.
    Guaranteed !!
    Goodnight fellow Traveller’s.
    have a great day tomorrow!

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 15

    Hugh Jazz May 4, 2016 11:16 pm Reply
  • I am very fortunate in having SNP voters with whom I can discuss rationally as opposed to some of their colleagues on here who do the SNP no favours whatsoever.
    I grew up in a family that had been influenced by politics; a senior relative had actually been a Minister in the WW2 War Coalition. His advice to me was never to trust politicians – a code of practice that remains to this day. I never vote for a party but for an individual whom I can call to account if s/he fails to stand up for constituents.
    My vote tomorrow will be my own; I do not appreciate bullying by any political party or their supporters.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 3

    Jade May 4, 2016 11:17 pm Reply
    • Define bullying.
      You come on here posting contentious drivel and when it is challenged you don’t like it. You follow up with more drivel but more angry drivel. It gets responded to. You follow up with…….. GET THE PICTURE
      Have a nice day.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 14

      Keitho May 5, 2016 9:04 am Reply
      • Aye, the bright get the picture Keitho, and you are right in the frame…

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 3

        Karl Hughes May 5, 2016 9:16 am Reply
      • Keitho,keep it up, some time you will step over the line.
        Remember the simple rule is never post something you wouldn’t say to that person face to face.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 3

        Richard May 5, 2016 10:34 am Reply
        • Love and Kisses to everyone.
          Try not to stand on too many toes through lifes journey.
          Bunnions can come back and bite you.
          Welcome back Karl, the level of drivel has nosedived lately in your absence.
          Maybe after this election is over FA can get round to stopping their OTT articles which often bring unnecessary reaction.
          I reckoned Jade was JB. MAYBEEEEE NOT

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 8

          Keitho May 5, 2016 11:30 am Reply
  • For those of you interested,straw polls received at midday show above average polling than 2011. SNP Vote is strong but a Majority is not Guaranteed by any stretch of the imagination.
    The 5pm poll will give more indication as to what is happening on the ground.
    Footnote- Liberal vote extremely weak.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

    A.Salmon May 5, 2016 2:39 pm Reply
  • Straw polls latest- 5pm.
    SNP Strong ,second votes coming in now.
    Libdems hardly registering.
    Tory,labour low polls but equal!
    Looking like small Majority for SNP at 56% polling.
    Greens will get 10 Seats,at least.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

    A.Salmon May 5, 2016 6:22 pm Reply
  • THANKYOU A SALMON.
    Lovely weather
    Similar returns from our area too.
    One polling station had passed 50% by 4 o’clock
    A good turnout is nice.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

    Sara Swann May 5, 2016 6:58 pm Reply
  • Latest 7 pm Straw polls .
    SNP receiving heavy voting in last two hours.Unprecedented!
    Orkney will fall to SNP if pollin figures correct.
    Willie Rennie can now join the Circus he’s always yearned for?
    More at 9.30

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 3

    A.Salmon May 5, 2016 7:36 pm Reply
  • So there you have it- an SNP Majority.
    Polling slack in cities but SNP vote held up.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

    A.Salmon May 5, 2016 10:12 pm Reply
    • An SNP majority? You’re kidding?! So glad I checked on here to find that out! I was expecting to wake up in the morning with a Tory majority, but can rest easy now!

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

      JB May 5, 2016 10:47 pm Reply
  • Very low turn-outs being reported; less than 40% in Ayrshire.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    db May 6, 2016 12:21 am Reply
    • Some polling stations in Ayrshire with only 33% turn-out.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      db May 6, 2016 12:28 am Reply
  • Yoonion under stress right now!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

    Hugh Jazz May 6, 2016 12:29 am Reply
  • Labour dying tonight!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

    Hugh Jazz May 6, 2016 12:30 am Reply
  • BBC panic?
    Yes!
    SNP easy.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

    Hugh Jazz May 6, 2016 12:31 am Reply
  • Ming lying like a rug!
    Lidbum wipeout!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

    Hugh Jazz May 6, 2016 12:32 am Reply
  • Libdems hold Orkney with a 32% increased majority.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

    db May 6, 2016 12:47 am Reply
    • Interesting first return that, 62% turn out; the libdems have done a lot of work getting their vote out.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

      db May 6, 2016 12:49 am Reply
  • 54.8% turnout
    SNP majority
    Labour wiped.
    Tory insignificant.
    Green to do well
    Indi2 on the cards.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

    A.Salmon May 6, 2016 12:48 am Reply
  • SNP take South Lanarkshire from Labour with a 9% swing.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

    db May 6, 2016 12:57 am Reply
    • 54% turn-out.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      db May 6, 2016 12:58 am Reply
      • Good result for the LDs, 11% up on 2011.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

        db May 6, 2016 1:40 am Reply
  • SNP will wipe out Liebour tonight.
    The battle we want is with the toerags

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

    Hugh Jazz May 6, 2016 1:21 am Reply
  • This makes interesting reading after the event; any post-election regrets for the rigid SNP 1+2 demands now it’s clear that so many of those list votes were wasted on the SNP and could have created many more Green MSPs?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    db May 8, 2016 9:44 am Reply
    • You are probably right in that more SNP second votes would have helped the Greens, but is that what the SNP needed. They have no control over the Greens and while some of the Greens can be depended on to follow an SNP path it is not certain that they all can be.
      It’s hard, or rather time consuming, to get the figures together, say into a spreadsheet that would make it easier to make calculations, but looking at what is tabulated in the media election results if SNP voters have given the Greens one third of the regional votes that they accumulated and, if so, they had instead voted SNP 1 & 2, then it looks like the SNP could have won an extra six or seven extra seats of their own.
      Anyway, the people have voted and it is what it is, they all just need to get on with it.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

      Murdoch MacKenzie May 8, 2016 11:08 am Reply

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