Now SNP infantry get the indyref 2 position straight from Nicola

In her launch in London earlier today, 29th February, of the SNP’s campaign for the United Kingdom to stay in Europe, Scotlamd’s First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, delivered a contradiction that is the clearest possible signal on the fate of Indyref 2 if the UK majority votes to leave the EU and Scotland votes to remain.

The First Minister has acknowledged that in this scenario there will certainly be powerful calls for a second referemdum on Scottish independence.

However, she has carefully avoided saying that she would listen to such calls.

But the key issue came when she chose to say that naturally she believed Scotland wold be independent one day – and that, were she to be leader of an independent Scotland in the EU, she would want her nearest neighbour to be in the EU as well.

A version of this statement was in the formal script of her speech, which she delivered but she varied it in remarks afterwards, on camera, to personalise it, as reported above.

With this self declared preferred scenario, it could not be more obvious that should Britain as a whole vote to leave the EU, Ms Sturgeon will certainly not approve a second push for Scottish independence.

Were she to do so and were the infantry to drive the victory they are capable of securing, her nightmare scenario would have come into being.

Scotland flying solo outside the shelter of the British union, outside the sterling zone; a member of the EU; a member of the Eurozone – a contributor to bailouts; and a member of the Schengen agreement on open borders – both of the last inevitable conditions of membership for a small country without the clout to command the exemptions the UK has secured.

This cloth-eared situation would see Scotland voluntarily out of the free trade area of the British union – its largest trading partner; and into the free trade area of the Eurozone, its third largest market after the UK and the USA.

It would indeed see Scotland share the intelligence of the EU community -but  greatly depleted by the absence of the input from GCHQ which is pretty much ahead of the rest of the world at the moment.

Nothing would persuade the ultra cautious First Minister to sanction a second indyref which just might result in so damaging a scenario for Scotland.

And incidentally, the arguments Ms Sturgeon so passionately advances for remaining members of the EU are the very same arguments for Scotland remaining a member of the British union, in or out of Europe: without the language problems, without carrying partial financial responsibility for eurozone bailouts; with the common currency of sterling; with access to the British free trade area – and, almost certainly, continuing access to the EU  as a trading partner, as a member of the British union, with the advantage of all of its negotiated exemptions.

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Related Articles & Comments

  • “Free trade area of the British Union”, how does that work then?

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 9

    Murdoch MacKenzie February 29, 2016 5:30 pm Reply
    • Exactly Murdoch… think about it.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 8

      JB February 29, 2016 8:51 pm Reply
    • Murdoch, try working it out where you are!

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 8

      Richard February 29, 2016 9:21 pm Reply
  • Your post hit the nail on the head

    In the event of a UK Brexit, but with a majority Scottish vote against Brexit. ,the SNP will be forced to address the currency issue of an Independent Scotland, before it can even consider holding IndyRef2.

    A credible currency for an Independent Scotland will be a pre-requisite for any Indyref2

    In the 2014 SNP independence campaign, the SNP assumed, with no evidence to support it, that rUk would agree to a sterling currency union. The inner sanctum of the SNP saw this as a major failure in the SNP’s 2014 campaign, but bowed to pressure from Alex S.

    The currency issue always has been an inconvenient issue for the SNP, and which the SNP continues to ignore. A long as the SNP ignores it , Indyref2 will never happen.

    It is Nicola S’ personal Project Fear, in the event of a UK Brexit but with a majority Scottish vote against Brexit, tohave to respond to demands for IndyRef2 when she has no credible currency to offer an Independent Scotland, other than the euro.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 23 Thumb down 11

    SCOTNAT February 29, 2016 5:54 pm Reply
  • If you are well travelled,you’ll have discovered that a dollar is worth a dollar in every country.
    You muddy the waters but thankfully now nobody listens to you types anymore.
    Project fear is dead in Scotland and has arisen,zombie like,down south now!
    We shall prevail and Scotland will free itself from the shackles of incompetence,in the very near future.
    Resistance is futile.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 24

    Hugh Jazz February 29, 2016 6:51 pm Reply
    • Financials have never been your strong point HJ.

      Do you quite fancy the notion of Scotland being free of England at last and our coinage being of the Euro variety?

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 19 Thumb down 7

      John M February 29, 2016 7:15 pm Reply
      • What money is called is irrelevant to me.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 19

        Hugh Jazz February 29, 2016 7:30 pm Reply
        • A fair comment. Why are you not going to vote leave though? If you are happy for Scotland to use the Euro and as a Brexit will provide the last serious attempt at independence for Scotland for a number of years, why vote stay?

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 14 Thumb down 8

          John M February 29, 2016 7:49 pm Reply
          • Why are you so challenged that you can’t see through the London veneer.
            Osbornes housing Ponzi scheme will hit the buffers soon!
            Vote SNP 1&2, Euro in.

            Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 22

            Hugh Jazz February 29, 2016 8:01 pm
          • Once your quite finished talking bollocks, why do you declare and loosely promote a stay vote but all your posts indicate you want a Brexit?

            Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 7

            John M February 29, 2016 8:14 pm
    • HJ, Scotland’s trade with Europe is 1/3 of its trade with rUK that alone makes it a problem for the SNP never mind not having an accepted currency or a central bank, then we come to the question of oil prices, it’s projected that the US fracking and shale oil operations will be the biggest oil producers in the world exceeding both russia and Saudia put together, all they need is the oil price to be $60 pb.
      Anyway what makes you think Scots will vote to stay in the EU, some local mini polls held by local papers don’t reflect Nicola’s opinion, I think it will be rUK that votes to stay in and Scotland to leave, consider the make up of the population.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 19 Thumb down 7

      richard February 29, 2016 7:44 pm Reply
      • You’re a backward looking wee person Dick!
        Some folks are half empty glass but you’ve no class or glass.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 19

        Hugh Jazz February 29, 2016 7:58 pm Reply
        • HJ, you really don’t have anything to contribute to any subject on here, for someone who pretends to be in the oil industry you are particularly ignorant of the world projections or can’t face the truth, with regard to how Scots will vote perhaps you can explain why you think they will vote to stay in, there is no good news coming out of Europe and there is a lot of bitterness here, try talking to the fishing communities, coal industry shut to meet emission targets power stations shut etc.
          Surely you have some idea to justify voting to stay in the EU and at the same time be an Independent country.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 19 Thumb down 6

          Richard February 29, 2016 8:42 pm Reply
          • Your forelock must be under extreme duress tonight,Dick!!

            Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 14

            Hugh Jazz February 29, 2016 9:22 pm
          • I had to laugh when you mentioned the word “Bitterness”
            By Gum,that’s one subject you must have a frigging Masters Degree in!!!

            Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 15

            Hugh Jazz February 29, 2016 9:29 pm
    • HJ being well traveled has not vested you with any financial or foreign exchange literacy.

      Your ignorant statement is a reprise of Harold Wilson’s financial and foreign exchange illiteracy in 1967 when he devalued sterling by 14%, and told the UK electorate that it did “ ..not mean, of course, that the pound here in Britain, in your pocket or purse, or in your bank, has been devalued”

      The well traveled know that one USD is worth one USD in the USA but one USD is worth 1.4 Aussie Diddlers in Aussie and worth 7.75 ,HKDlrs in HK , and the well traveled know that one Aussie Dlr is worth one Aussie Dlr in Aust and one HK Dlr is worth one HK Dlr in HK

      So what is your point ..other than showing your ignorance?

      I note none of SNP zealots on FA disagree that if Indy Ref 2 is an o/come of Brexit, that a sterling union will not be an option,consequently the SNP will be forced to propose a credible currency for an Independent Scotland, or adopt the euro.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3

      SCOTNAT March 1, 2016 1:09 pm Reply
  • NS said no such thing. For Argyll confused? No change there.

    The right wing neo cons want Engerland out. Empire mark 2.They head of with Dame Moan Scotland will remain part of the EU along with the RoI and Wales. The province of NI will do as they are told. Maybe the editor will do a runner!!

    lol

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 21

    No Cheese Here February 29, 2016 7:57 pm Reply
    • NCH, why would the RoI want to join hsnds with Scotland and what has Wales got to bring to the party?

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 6

      Richard February 29, 2016 8:45 pm Reply
    • NCH

      To avoid any confusion, when you state ” NS said no such thing” what are you disputing that NS did not say?

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 4

      SCOTNAT February 29, 2016 10:09 pm Reply
  • One thing at a time. First another thumping SNP victory in May and then a ” In ” vote to remain in the EU. After that Nicola can play it as needs be with two thumping majorities and a Scottish ” In ” vote.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 20

    willie February 29, 2016 8:34 pm Reply
  • And meanwhile the Brits abroad are kerching themselves about a UK exit. With over 2 million Brits living and working or living and retired in the EU, the prospect of Visas, residency permits, permits to oen property, rights for relatives to visit looms large on their horizon. More so if residency, like in the UK is going to be conditional upon being fluemt on the local language. This could be an absolute education for the enclaves of Brits abroad. But what of the older age skewed Brits who have retired abroad. Requiring of substantially more healthcare than younger people, the UK logic of foreigners coming to steal and leech from the British NHS will not be lost on host countries full of aging Brits who are not EU citizens. Do yes, no wonder the Brits Abroad are having a dose of the runs – cos it looks like their tea could be out.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 13

    willie February 29, 2016 8:51 pm Reply
    • Willie, you really are the ‘oracle’ on living abroad, your mail box will surely overrun with people desperate for your advice on how to survive abroad or even worse in the dark recesses of Argyll, your esteemed advice on finding that rare species ‘dentist’ might put many out of their agony.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 6

      Richard February 29, 2016 9:17 pm Reply
      • Dick,how come every time Mini Hack excretes some nonsense and mentions the word “Independence” , you got totally Tonto!
        I think,deep down ,in the recesses of the warped,depraved world you inhabit,self determination terrifies you.
        You are dependant .Admit it here!!!

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 13

        Hugh Jazz February 29, 2016 9:26 pm Reply
        • HJ, remember not to post what you wouldn’t say to my face, you may inhabit that type of environment I don’t.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2

          richard March 1, 2016 10:41 am Reply
          • Oh,I would say it and more to your face Dick.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 5

            Hugh Jazz March 1, 2016 1:48 pm
      • Living abroad in “the dark recesses of Argyll”? Not to worry Dick, the blog will just need to add the letters “eign” into it’s title. Maybe they have always been there, but hidden.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 6

        Murdoch MacKenzie March 1, 2016 8:13 am Reply
    • From what I have read, many of the expats retired in Europe already have problems, they only get very basic free healthcare and the more expensive treatments required as they age already has to be paid for unlike under the NHS. I think I have read of other problems already in Spain for expats.

      But basically whilst they have a good UK company pension or private pension and money in the bank then any country will welcome them so I don’t think we will be seeing Mr Connery returning to these shores.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

      Lundavra March 1, 2016 8:56 am Reply
  • Roll up,Roll up.
    Mini Hack has got the Yoons Frothing at nose and mouth.
    Lovin it.
    Good on ya,Mini!!

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 14

    Hugh Jazz February 29, 2016 9:30 pm Reply
    • HJ, the only frothing at the mouth is from you and your fellow travellers, do tell us how your going to increase benefits, raise taxes, become Independent, join the EU, be a member of NATO, and open the gates to all who want to come here.
      It wasn’t that long ago the SNP were against being a member of the EU, what changed apart from more and more interference in our lives from Brussels.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 3

      richard March 1, 2016 10:56 am Reply
  • I post on tong page. Hello. My name is Sacha. I bot big land in Mull and now have my big hefty Scots las up duf.
    I am rely worried about Bretez as I feer being booted to France.
    Please feel for me and my hefty Scots las up duf.
    Vot to stay in EU. Vote to help Sacha and big hefty scots las,up guf.
    Merci.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 5

    Sacha Distillery February 29, 2016 9:46 pm Reply
  • The fact of the matter Richard is that if the UK exits the EU the British citizens living abroad will no longer be EU citizens. This will change the relationship and status of Brits living abroad. As non EU citizens things will be different, quite quite different and an automatic right to live, work, own property, use the local healthcare will no longer be an entitlement. Protecting ones borders, refusing the right to entry, to work, to reside, to even reside cuts both many ways – but out of the EU, the Brits are the foreigners. Having travelled extensively I am aware of the issue of the need for visas, work permits and how they are absolutely essential to both entering and exiting countries and how such documentation is crucial to everyday life. I’m sure the two million Brits currently in the EU, will like you be comfortable about the impacts of a UK Brexit. They’ll not need any advice from me for what it would be worth. Back to Blighty could be the new blockbuster soap regailing how retirees became foreigners in their adopted regions. And of course, the opportunities to restrict the free movement of working age Brits could also yield interesting tales – especially since Home Secretary Theresa May is puting the finishing touches to a statutory instrument to throw out all non EU graduates who are not earning £35k. The logic of throwing out graduates is sublime, absolutely sublime and no doubt our universities and hospitals will be so much the better for it. Yes Richard, you are indeed a wise man, a very wise man, and I salute your superior intellect.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 7

    willie February 29, 2016 9:59 pm Reply
  • The Pink Floyd lyric of ” we don’t need no education ‘ should be the ‘out ‘ campaign anthem. Like the Nazis in the 1930s rooting out Jews, it doess seem we are poised to do the sinilar as we seek to expell foreign graduates to breed a pure Britannic master race. A new Krystalnicht in a mother Engerlund free from foreigners.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 11

    willie February 29, 2016 10:17 pm Reply
    • willie – you’re a loony. God help you – you need it.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 4

      JB March 1, 2016 7:46 am Reply
    • Willie, your sick.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2

      richard March 1, 2016 10:44 am Reply
  • Denmark has managed quite well without being part of Germany. I think the UK is its third biggest export market. Will Denmark stay or vote to go? Will Legos exports melt like Lurpak? Somehow I don’t think so.

    Compare Scotland: how will Tesco, etc al cope without 10% of their market if RUK goes and Scotland stays in EU? They’ll find a way.

    London is but one of 32 points on the compass; time Scotland concentrated on the other 31.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2

    Graeme McCormick February 29, 2016 10:34 pm Reply
  • Unintended consequences! The claim that if the vote is to leave, yet Scotland votes to remain, could spark a call for indy ref2. Leaves little choice for many in Scotland but, to vote to leave just in case!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

    Arfur Sixpence March 1, 2016 8:52 am Reply
    • People need to vote for what they want to happen. All the \if,\then, twisting and turning just leads to voters being played by the careerist politicians, and the production line that spits them out never slows down.
      I’ll be voting for an exit from the EU and an exit from the UK at every opportunity.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 6

      Murdoch MacKenzie March 1, 2016 9:29 am Reply
      • Murdoch, do you consider yourself representative of how the majority of Scots will vote?

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3

        richard March 1, 2016 10:46 am Reply
        • Richard, I consider myself representative of how the majority of Scots should vote?

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 4

          Murdoch MacKenzie March 1, 2016 10:58 am Reply
  • It may have been some scaremongering in the indyref, but Britain out and Scotland in the EU would definitely lead to border controls on the M74. If the whole point of the Brexit crowd being to have closer control of borders, an open border to Scotland makes no sense at all.
    Someone should evaluate the benefit of being in Europe with the disbenefit of having to wait at borders and fill in customs paperwork just to get to Scotlands biggest trading parting, England.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

    Jerry McIver March 1, 2016 12:50 pm Reply
    • Jerry, the SNP don’t want England as a trading partner they believe we can go it alone without anything to do with rUK, the funny thing is Scots accept this along with the pack of lies in the white paper including Ms Sturgeon’s assertions on the Scottish NHS and how Westminster was out to destroy it, suddenly Swinney can find another £500m, money he had all the time.
      Negative and lacking credibility is the SNP case for staying in the EU because it is their tried and tested method of trying to justify indyref 2

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2

      richard March 1, 2016 3:14 pm Reply
      • You do talk drivel Dick.Name the person in the SNP who said they doesn’t want to trade with Englad ?
        The trouble with Ukok is they think they still have an Empire.
        Scotland wants to trade with the world,not just England.
        This has been a bad day for Yoonsville

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 7

        Hugh Jazz March 1, 2016 3:47 pm Reply
        • HJ,nothing but negative news from the SG, everyone clamoring to spend more on Benefits, no wonder this is known as the benefits capital of Europe.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2

          Richard March 1, 2016 4:16 pm Reply
          • I’m sure you will join me in sincerely THANKING Nicola and John Swinney for standing up to the Thieving Tory’s and saving the HARD WORKING people of Scotland from losing 7 Billion Pounds.
            SNP POLITICIANS DONT DO KNIGHTHOODS AND THAT SORT OF NONSENSE ‘

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 7

            Hugh Jazz March 1, 2016 5:07 pm
          • Only the Dicks who support ruk out call Scotland down. It is they way they think.

            They are in the minority of course but will avoid tax paying by hook and by crook in the sure thought that tories will support them screwing Scotland and ruk.

            Keeping busy just ensuring defeat of the the Dicks and the Ruks in May. They know this as the flail around.

            Great fun.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

            No Cheese Here March 8, 2016 10:50 am
  • Latest poll has SNP on 60%,!
    Tories irrelevant on,ah who cares
    Liebour on ,not worth printing,
    Libdums,think they have disappeared
    Rancid UKIP ,don’t register.
    Raving loony Lord Such,down one percentage point.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 8

    Hugh Jazz March 1, 2016 1:51 pm Reply
  • Posters NCH and Hugh Jazz are clamouring for a 2nd independence referendum yet there has been no comment from our local SNP MP Brendan O’Hara or any of his fellow SNP MP’S at Westminster.
    Why, because they will be handed their P45 if the Scottish electorate votes in favour of Scotland becoming an independent country.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

    Treble T March 7, 2016 10:34 pm Reply

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