Jnr Tick must have eaten a BSE infected …

Comment posted Compensation to farmers for fallen stock in recent bad weather emergency by Mel Gibson.

Jnr Tick must have eaten a BSE infected burger at one time and contracted mad cow disease, so perhaps it’s understandable why she is so rabid in her rantings against food producers.

Mel Gibson also commented

  • Nope. And at 7.30am shouldn’t you be getting ready for school Sam, not playing on your moms computer?

Recent comments by Mel Gibson

  • Rural business interest in Fisheries Management demonstration day
    No Steve, puerile taunts hurt a reasoned debate.
  • Rural business interest in Fisheries Management demonstration day
    Fish don’t feel pain? On what scientific data do you base that assertion on Mr McKay?

    http://www.livescience.com/48341-sharks-feel-pain-but-have-few-protections.html

    Mutilation seems to me to be a rather apt word when described the impaling of a living and sentient being on a barbed hook, and then dragging it out of its natural environment before ripping the hook out.

    Bloodsport is a widely accepted phrase used when describing foxhunting, bull fighting etc and I have yet to be told the difference between those and fishing for pleasure.

    The lack of response isn’t because of the use of emotive phrases, its because the protagonists don’t want to face up to an uncomfortable truth.

    Finally, I am not an “animal rightist”, what a ridiculous statement to make and one purely designed to insult. Please grow up.

  • Rural business interest in Fisheries Management demonstration day
    Newsie

    You post these articles from the wild fish lobby, but there is always a strange silence to any comment I make regarding the abuse of a wild animal in the name of sport.

    Could you bring this to the attention of your contributors please, and extend the offer for an online debate on this matter?

  • Rural business interest in Fisheries Management demonstration day
    You mean you could produce more Simons through farming?
  • Rural business interest in Fisheries Management demonstration day
    Having seen what they do to salmon, I’m not sure that little old me would be safe with that lot!

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68 Responses to Jnr Tick must have eaten a BSE infected …

  1. “I know this is deeply distressing for farmers to see so many animals suffering and dying, particularly during the lambing season which is normally a season of birth not death”

    I think what will be far more “deeply distressing” is the loss of revenue farmers have to swallow. Anyone including Richard Lockhead suggesting farmers have concern for these creatures welfare for any other reason other than profit is ludicrous. It pays (financially) to ensure they are fed and inoculated, protected from predators and so on, its certainly not for the love of these creatures.

    Why are so many livestock in extreme weather conditions, be it floods or drifting snow allowed to perish, why is there no shelter, what about taking precautionary measures, they too must have access to weather forecasts as we all do.

    The fact of the matter is quite simply cash is their incentive and the lives of these animals secondary.
    There is such a contradiction in claiming distress and concern for the lambs, sheep, calves and cattle when the young are dragged from their mothers after a matter of months and sent into slaughter houses, concern ma a**e!

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  2. I understand that profit is the motive but for many hill farmers in Kintyre that just means making a basic living. While there may be a few who treat animals purely as wooly cashline machines, my experience is that most actually do care about their stock and wouldn’t see an animal in distress. To work all year and prepare for lambing only to lose your pregnant ewes will be soul destroying and for some economically crippling. Barns were not, in this weather, a safer option as some of them collapsed under the weight of the snow.

    Farmers were faced, like the rest of us, with weather that our octogenarians had never seen before. No weather report would have prepared any of us for what actually happened. This was not a snowstorm. It was much worse than that and it fell in an area that rarely sees snow at all.

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  3. Hi Anne
    I fully understand what you are saying in your defence of farmers compassion towards their livestock, however, I feel you are missing the point and not getting the contradiction I highlight.
    To be “deeply distressed” at losing ewes & lambs unborn or not from freak weather conditions but not “deeply distressed” at seeing them taken from their mother and field then driven to an abattior then murdered is as obvious an example of blatant inconistency as you like.
    You say “farmers wouldn’t see an animal “in distress”. Are animals any less “in distress” firstly hypothermic, then unconcious then deceased than the process from 20 weeks old, yes 20 weeks! to accompanying mint sauce?
    Regarding barns, I didn’t hear in the news of many schools, public buildings, houses etc. with their roofs collapsed in Kintyre.
    If only farmers invested some of their blood money in substantial buildings capable of withstanding these sort of extremes but when all is said and done that will depend on their priorities.
    While I agree with your politics Anne, the heartbroken farmers premature losses ring hollow with me.

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    • Animals are slaughtered, not ‘murdered’.

      Murder is a term reserved for the killing of humans.

      A small point but I feel an important one that puts your whole post into perspective and shows that you have little knowledge of the real world of farming in Argyll or elsewhere.

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      • All it shows is that he uses different context to you, some may see it as pejorative , some may not
        Though I can’t see how using a different context equals ignorance of farming in Argyll.

        Does calling IDS a ratbag show an ignorance of bags then?

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        • Farmers are not ‘murderers’ and suggesting that they are is objectionable. Unless you are a vegan the use of such language is self-indulgent nonsense.

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          • I’m sure there are farmers who are murders, bit of a sweeping statement, asserting that farmers are not murderers.
            Bit like saying doctors aren’t murderers, the up pops Shipman to prove that wrong

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        • Exactly Sam, Webcraft completely misses the point and looks to retaliate by throwing in unsubstatiated assertions.
          Had a wee chuckle at your IDS comparison too, cheers.

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  4. Funny how we use different language when it amounts to the same thing, simply to make a certain form of killing more acceptable than another. Of course, there are those who believe that humans are a more superior being than others.

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  5. Lowry, what a strange thing to say – “there are those who believe that humans are a more superior being than others” – and you don’t????

    All animals are equal???

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  6. Webcraft, I’m neither a vegan nor a vegetarian. However, can you, or any one else, explain why in a recession, yet more subsidy is going to farmers??

    Your SNP council is proposing to shut an old Folks Home to save (allegedly) £400k. Yet you SNP Govt gives away another £500k to farmers!!

    More money to a private industry that’s in the business of making money. And an industry that does not share it profits with the rest of us when their times are good.

    Why out of all the industries that have been badly affected is farming the one being selected for financial help?

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    • Simon,

      I haven’t joined in this thread to discuss farm subsidies with you or anyone else. I contributed because I thought the use of the word ‘murder’ to describe the slaughter of food animals was ludicrous.

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      • Hi Webcraft…

        Totally agree with you.
        Having farmed on the west coast let me just clarify something for the “animal rights” lot.

        Sheep/cattle would not be there if they were not going to be eaten by humans.

        I never saw my stock heading off to be murdered…I saw them heading off to end up on somebodies table as food…It is distressing to go out at lambing time and find lambs dead on the hill due to adverse weather…hurts because you do the best you can to give stock a good healthy life while they grow…it also hurts the pocket book ! as for us paying out for their demise…well I personally think we should not.

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    • Simon, all governments subsidise industry continually.

      The biggest subsidy today is working family tax credits, were uk government is subsidising employers who pay piss poor wages, by giving the low paid extra cash to enable them to get by.

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  7. @ Webcraft

    Dress the act of murder up how you wish Webcraft especially if it helps you deal with the reality of what appears on your plate. My definition right or wrong is a living creature which has been intentionally killed against their will. Please educate me if this is far from the mark.
    I was born and brought up yards from several farms and have a reasonable grasp of farming, not that farming has anything to do with the description whether an animal is slaughtered or murdered.
    Get yourselves off to an abbatoir for the day, great days viewing and a place you will witness something the vast majority do not wish to think about conveniently blocked from thought.

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    • I’ve been in a slaughterhouse Tick, and been around farms and farming most of my life. I can assure you that most farmers care deeply for their animals and hate to see them suffer.

      If you are a vegan then I respect your position, but you abuse and distort the English language nonethteless by referring to the slaughter of meat animals as murder. That is not what the word means.

      If you are not a vegan then I fear you are a hypocrite.

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      • Hello Webcraft
        “farmers care deeply for their animals”
        Parents “care deeply” for their children.

        “you abuse and distort the English language nonethteless by referring to the slaughter of meat animals as murder. That is not what the word means.”

        As I’ve said, play with words by all meens, calling it “slaughter”, a word often used to describe murderous acts in places where atrocities and genicide are carried out such as the democratic republic of Congo, Rwanda etc. it amounts to the same thing, we are all animal.

        My personal choices be them omnivore, vegan, rawist or whatever are neither here nor there only requested by some on here as ammunition and a reason to deflect from the issues raised. We, as you will have noticed being a contributor to this site for some time are often asked to surrender out anonymity for the very same reasons.
        By the way Webcraft, you say – “If you are not a vegan then I fear you are a hypocrite”. I as we all do, do lots of things I most definately do not agree with, such as pay a TV licence in turn funding a propoganda machine diametrically opposed to my political stance to name one. I slate them yet pay for them to exist!
        If we all take closer scrutiny at ourselves we all in some ways are hypocrites.

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  8. @Robert Wakeman

    Sam is correct, what has the fact that someone is vegetarian or vegan got to do with this?

    My intention was simply to highlight the contradiction in farmers being deeply distressed at the welfare of their livestock yet aparently not so at sending them at 20 weeks to their death.

    As I’ve said, I believe farmers concern for these creatures in these circumstances is disingenuous although concern for lost revenue would be more believable.

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      • Courage of my convictions? meaning what?

        Condemn farming animals for meat?
        Merely highlighting the absurdity of and duplicity of the mindset around claiming to have compassion for a living creature yet treating it as a commodity to be bought sold and dispatched.

        What is it you don’t get here Robert? Going back to my original post, I took offence at what I believe to be insincere and to be honest the sheer hypocracy of the claim that farmers were anything other than gutted at the loss of revenue during these weather extremes.
        If you are going to come on here trying to pick holes in my opinions at least make an attempt to throw some weight behind the opposite of what I claim however dificult that will prove to be.

        Not one post so far, most definately including yours, strengthens the claim that farmers are genuinely distraught at the loss of life, but then again as I said, why should they.

        If you have a problem with vegetarians or vegans and desperate to defend your food choices, you will be spoiled for choice if you type vegetarian forum into Google (other search engines available)
        Have a go on there ma friend and come back on here with your tail between your legs and tell us all what a doddle it was.

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        • If you think stock farmers have no compassion for their animals it’s more likely you that ‘doesn’t get it’, and why such aggressive and intolerant rants?
          Unless you’re a Jain (and I think the average Jain would put across their point of view a good deal more maturely – non-violence, self control, etc etc) you’re being rather hypocritical. yourself.

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          • You call for non violence, self control? Firing a bolt into the skull of a creature or slitting their throat and all the other acts funded by we humans, the consumer are hardly the acts of non-violence, self control. I don’t and I’m sure you wouldn’t have the stomach for it nor sleep too well at night either, farmers no doubt do.
            So I take it you aren’t going to provide a productive contribution as requested to this then Robert? Two straight forward questions, have the courtesy and show the maturity to play the ball rather than the man.
            You surely have something to counter my claims that you can throw into the mix other than the lack of maturity, violent accusations, very poor indeed. Trouble is, sometimes the stark reality when staring in the face is too much to confront. This should not deter us from highlighting these issues however unpalatable.

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          • My concern would be that the slaughter of animals for food is as humane as reasonably possible. I’m surprised at your raging against people who are at least in the food business, rather than killing for ‘sport’, but then your definition of the BBC as a propaganda machine diametrically opposed to your political stance doesn’t encourage faith in your powers of rational thought.
            What is your political stance? And are you vegetarian, or vegan?

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          • Robert,

            JnrTick is a fervent Nationalist politically as far as I can gather, and as such is on the same side of the independence debate as myself.

            I have to say that I agree that thus far in its reporting of the debate BBC Scotland has tended to show a unionist bias. I would hesitate to call it a ‘propaganda machine’ though.

            What I find ironic is that JnrTick himself cannot see that his use of highly charged emotive language such as ‘murder’ to describe the routine slaughter of meat animals is itself propaganda of a very crude sort.

            JnrTick is remarkably eloquent on most ocasions. I suspect his descent into hyperbole from time to time (as with this issue) could possibly be ascribed to the Jnr part of his nom-de-cyberplume.

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  9. @ Robert (again)

    ‘Just wondering what sort of animal ‘Jnr Tick’ is – I thought ticks were bloodsuckers’

    Genius, well done, big tick for that correct answer

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  10. @ Karl Hughes

    “Having farmed on the west coast let me just clarify something for the “animal rights” lot.

    Sheep/cattle would not be there if they were not going to be eaten by humans.”

    They are bred to serve demand through human choice, certainly not choice of the animal and to make few humans wealthy. Don’t quite get your point there Karl?

    “I never saw my stock heading off to be murdered…I saw them heading off to end up on somebodies table as food…It is distressing to go out at lambing time and find lambs dead on the hill due to adverse weather…hurts because you do the best you can to give stock a good healthy life while they grow…it also hurts the pocket book ! as for us paying out for their demise…well I personally think we should not.”

    You saw the animals heading off to end up on someones plate yet you never saw them heading of to be murdered/slaughtered?

    It hurts because you have put all that effort into giving them a healthy life while they grow? What, for lambs thats around 20 weeks? Is that growing? Ge us peace. I have never said in any of my posts that most farmers don’t do the best they can for the welfare of their products, silly to suggest they do as would be counter-productive.
    You hit the nail bang on the head Karl, “the pocket hurts”, lets cut the crap and get to the point in all of this. There’s money in death and the only tears shed never involve loss of life, loss of income yes.

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    • 50 years ago it was all to do with money as well. I remember a classmate telling us of how on his weekend visit home he had attended a grazings committee meeting in his remote Gaelic speaking village.
      There must have been someone important there from the Commission and the subject of subsidy qualification must have been on the agenda because a local worthy made the case that, “I lose twenty sheep and get nothing for it”.

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    • “You saw the animals heading off to end up on someones plate yet you never saw them heading of to be murdered/slaughtered?”

      I have killed stock for food, Pigs, Cattle, Sheep…even hit the heads of a few salmon and trout in my time…if I couldn’t myself kill an animal for food then I would be a vegetarian…
      I visited the slaughter house where our cattle went…lambs were finished (fattened) elsewhere.

      They are farm animals, and correct me if I am wrong but we have been domesticating animals for around 7000 years…the sheep cattle and all (arable crops) are not “Wild Species” they are a product of man’s cross breeding of wild species…remove the demand and what do we do with the X million cattle and sheep ?

      Yes it hits the pocket book…farming is a business not a charity…but that does not stop you caring about your stocks wellfare. Our farm was SOPA registered…and as such handouts were hard to come by…even if stock died.

      As for your comment “There’s money in death and the only tears shed never involve loss of life, loss of income yes.” tell that to the farmers who lost their stock in the F&M outbreak…people who had spent generations working with the seasons improving the bloodlines of their stock…only to watch them end up as ash on a pyre…farming is a vocation,based realistically on supply and demand, vocation involves passion not greed !

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      • “They are farm animals, and correct me if I am wrong but we have been domesticating animals for around 7000 years”.

        No need to correct you on this one Karl but if you are going to use time as justification didn’t we hang people up until 1964?

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        • if you want justification for meat as a product go and take a look at the meat shelf in your local Tesco’s…thats justification enough…or watch some bloke in Borneo hunt…

          As for your ref to hanging…Was capital punishment “Murder” in your book or justice ? don’t bother answering…I have never seen a murder’s as sentient being…more of a burden on humanity and the TAX payer… we shouldn’t have stopped in 64…we should have just looked at an alternative use for proven/confessed scum…in fact we could have expanded the use of capital punishment to paedophiles and rapists…and terrorism.

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  11. @ Webcraft
    Just been to the freedictionary.com
    You say “slaughter” relates to animal and “murder” to the human animal. One of your first posts on this article was to claim that because I claimed otherwise it was “ludicrous”.
    I don’t think you’ll be too pleased with 2, 2a&b Webcraft? puts this one to bed surely?
    slaugh·ter (slôtr)
    n.
    1. The killing of animals especially for food.
    2. The killing of a large number of people; a massacre: “I could not give my name to aid the slaughter in this war, fought on both sides for grossly material ends” (Sylvia Pankhurst).
    tr.v. slaugh·tered, slaugh·ter·ing, slaugh·ters
    1. To kill (animals) especially for food; butcher.
    2.
    a. To kill (people) in large numbers; massacre.
    b. To kill in a violent or brutal manner.

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    • What I said was that the word ‘murder’ is not applicable to the slaughter of animals for food. Nothing you have posted so far contradicts this.

      Google ‘murder’ and come back when you find a definition where it applies to the killing of animals by humans.

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  12. Instead of just paying out money this year why not instead offer those affected grants to build protective winter shelters for their animals. Better to work against the same thing happening in future surely.

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    • A 1903 Australian newspaper . . . oh well, that definitely proves all stock farmers are murderers. Well done Struan, it must have taken you a while to dig up something that obscure.

      Other than the sheer joy of (as you fondly imagine) proving me wrong what exactly is your point? Is it the annual ‘knock the farmers’ festival? Murdering swines getting government money eh? Do you really believe it is in any way helpful or relevant to the discussion to bring extremist animal rights sentiments into it?

      In fact this is a fairly pragmatic offer by the government for the express purpose of disposing of fallen stock. Apart from anything else it will help to ensure that those of tender sensibilities are not confronted by rotting sheep carcases when out walking in Kintyre and Arran this Summer.

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  13. Demonstrating this usage makes no more point relative to the main arguments around the issues than you frequently disputing the usage. I just found a focus on semantics curious. Showing a usage does not mean the use is true or untrue. My choosing to share a link found on the first page of a Google search is hardly back breaking or indicative of my opinions. I merely find a debate on issues more interesting than dictionary corner.

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    • If you choose to deliberately use emotive language when discussing an issue you must expect your usage of such language to become part of the debate I’m afraid.

      JnrTick’s conscious choice to use the word ‘murder’ to describe the regular slaughter of food animals is little different in this respect to the unionists’ constant use of the word ‘separation’ instead of ‘independence’.

      .

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      • Och come on, what nonsense! Why are the Nats so sensitive about separation? It is both, therefore both are equally valid!

        Anyway… off to Pristina in about an hour, will not mention either word i think, just for an easy life :-)

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  14. Jnr Tick must have eaten a BSE infected burger at one time and contracted mad cow disease, so perhaps it’s understandable why she is so rabid in her rantings against food producers.

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  15. Part perhaps but you were leaving comments with only that as the focus.
    What word for causing life to cease would you describe as not being emotive?

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    • The act and consequences of taking life is emotive. I’d say that it is more so than the word to describe the deliberate act of taking of life against the will of animal.
      Those who find the word ‘murder’ to describe the deliberate killing of an animal offensive are perfectly entitled to.

      Of course a retaliatory response is to be expected, I am well aware that human animal is uncomfortable with being in any way complicit in the act of murder as would be the case through funding and will take issue.

      If in some way using the word slaughter sanitises the process exculpating the individual then so be it, I’m all for folks getting a restful nights kip.

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      • Those who find the word ‘murder’ to describe the deliberate killing of an animal offensive are perfectly entitled to.

        It’s not offensive, it’s stupid. What is offensive is the implicit suggestion that farmers are murderers.

        If you eat meat yourself it is not just stupid and offensive, it means you personally condone murder.

        Do you eat meat, JnrTick? Yes or no? Simple question.

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        • Hello Webby, don’t quite know or more to the point can’t be bothered reading through all my posts on this monotonous thread to check if I implied farmers are murderers.
          If I did, I was wrong and you are absolutely correct. The farmers themselves don’t generally murder their livestock, they are too fond of them and care compassionately about them to do that.

          “Do you eat meat, JnrTick? Yes or no? Simple question”

          How I sustain myself is totally irrelevant within this particular joust. My first post is exactly where I take issue and go on to explain why in this and subsequent posts.
          You take issue with my use of the word murder. Fine.

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  16. “if you want justification for meat as a product go and take a look at the meat shelf in your local Tesco’s…thats justification enough…or watch some bloke in Borneo hunt”

    Is this a wind up? Please tell me that isn’t the strength of your argument for a pro-meat stance. Vegetarians would shoot that down very quickly but best left to those who wish to get into that debate.

    In the unlikely event the subject arises on here I won’t hold back.

    Karl, why so defensive? Touchy subject, eh?

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