Comment posted Gourock-Dunoon ferry: the authoritative position by ferryman.
In what sense is this a relief newsroom?
Cowal Games is of major importance to the local economy. We are now going to be using three bathtubs and gambling on good weather.
The Clyde Clipper was used on the passenger only service for a week or two at the start, she kept breaking down. The Argyll Flyer cancels if the wind comes from the east. The AliCat can only sail if its clear. None of them can sail once the water gets choppy.
If we are lucky the weather will be good. If the weather is bad there could be a lot of disgruntled travellers and they may well think twice about coming back in future years as well.
This is a huge gamble.
ferryman also commented
- Argyll ferries still seem to be off.
This is really farcical.The weather is not so nice now, but its well within normal for this part of the world.
Had this been Games day it would have been a total disaster.
- It is now 12:00 and that is the Argyll Ferry service suspended, to be reviewed at 15:00!
I have had a look at various websites and the wind does not seem to be more than about 20mph.
Neither of the current bathtubs are fit for the purpose of running a regular ferry service on the Firth of Clyde. As has been said all along larger vessels are needed.
What is your solution for this newsroom (aka soapbox). You were in favour of using the bathtubs for the Games, where do you stand now?
- Yes, it is bright and sunny weather we would be pleased to have for Cowal Games. But one of the bathtubs cannot cope with the breeze! If this happens at the Games the capacity on the route will have dropped by 50% compared with last year (more if the other bathtubs cannot run). Large numbers of people cannot simply make their way Western because they too are limited on how many passengers they can carry.
Maybe the weather will be good, maybe it will be bad, but this is a ridiculous gamble.
- The Observer showed a picture of people streaming of the Saturn for last year’s Cowal Games. The car deck and ramp look full and people are queuing to come down the stairs onto the car deck. There are a lot of brollies up.
Saturn carried around 500 passengers. The Clyde Clipper and the other bathtubs only carry about 250 people each. So this year the capacity on the route will have been reduced by 25% from 1000 to 750 passengers – assuming the bathtubs run ( with possible prosecutions in the offing that is a big assumption ).
The Saturn also had two substantial saloons as well as covered deck spaces. The bathtubs will be much more cramped if it raining.
This seems a very blikered approach, just looking at ferry costs in isolation and ignoring the risk to the Cowal Games.
Maybe the weather will be good this year, but this solution is going to come unstuck one year.Decent sized ferries that can cope with the weather are needed on this route.
- Newsroom (aka soapbox) campaigned for a passenger only ferry service. We got one but the bathtubs are just not up to the job. Does Newsroom say sorry, I was wrong, nope. Instead it carries on almost seeming to argue that we don’t need a passenger only service, too much capacity etc. Any progress made by people arguing for larger vehicle ferries is met by slightly hysterical and inaccurate articles.
When a third bathtub is put on for Cowal Games newsroom unbelievably welcomes this!
When I posted the comment above I expected newsroom to respond with howls of protest abouts its editorial independence and journalistic integrity. Instead there was silence – perhaps newsroom did not read the comment?
So newsroom do you have sponsors, do you get grants from the Council? If you do have sponsors who are they?
Recent comments by ferryman
- Reminder: Argyll Ferries on ‘refit’ service schedule
The scottish Government has failed to deliver on the transferable ferry tickets it was going to setup. The bus scheme is a bodge that adds anything upto two hours to travel time.Any news on what they are going to do for Cowal Games or are they just going to try another gamble on the weather.
- New Campbeltown ferry pilot – a whale beached before it starts
They did not refuse to give car/ferry passenger service to Dunoon – they took it away!They went back on a maniefesto committment to provide new vehicle ferries and then to cap it all they made an incompetent botch by putting in a totally and uttery unreliable passenger only service.
- Inexplicable blame game from MSP on lack of cross-ticketing on Dunoon ferries
“no carrier could justify running a heavier and thirstier craft than necessary”The “than necessary” is the critical point. If you are specifying a commuter service to get people to and from work, hospital college etc. then it is necessary and perfectly possible to specify vessels able to operate reliably on the Clyde.
What you do not do is accept vessels which regularly and repeatedly fail to run for days at a time.
Newsroom wrote “physical facts are the physical facts”, they are indeed and the current bathtubs are far too small for reliable operation. In any case the Ali Cat was operating unreliably on the route already so her current performance is no surprise.
- Inexplicable blame game from MSP on lack of cross-ticketing on Dunoon ferries
I take exception to your statement that “The Argyll Ferries’ passenger boats, being necessarily lighter craft, are more prone to delay and cancellation in a bit of a blow”.Transport Scotland should have specified vessels able to provide a reliable service. They did not hence the problem.
Also the gentleman referred to in the article in the Observer concluded by saying he did not want a lot of energy devoted to cross ticketing etc he wanted it devoted to the getting his town centre ferry service taking him to the trains to work.
That of course makes sense because even if he could transfer totally reliably to and from Western at no cost at all he would still be late for work.
- Western Ferries: new sailings, inflation rises in fares – and protection for concessions
“the consensus seemed to be that they would be too expensive to be used as passenger only ferries”Exactly. Here you have ferries known to be reliable in the sea conditions on the route, able to operate at a fantastic profit when carrying vehicles but not economic carrying only passengers.
AF are suspended again today, they were off all day yesterday, because they use bathtubs not remotely suited for the purpose to which they are being put.
The sensible thing is to use larger ferries on the town centre route and let them carry vehicles. As CalMac demonstrated, before the Government of the day stopped them, putting on more sailings increased revenue and cut subsidy.
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More waffle from Newsroom (aka soapbox).
The MCA are obviously toughening up on operators using small boats ill suited for the provision of regular ferry services.
This can be seen at Kilcreggan as well as by the fact that they are now going to be monitoring AFL regularly. The fact that the MCA is going to be looking for strict compliance with certification indicates they take quite a different view to Newroom over the importance of the regulation.
Once more Newsroom repeats the incorrect statement about there being a “lack of current paperwork” for the AliCat. The paperwork is all in place, the MCA made it clear the boat-Masters were operating in ignorance of the restrictions imposed upon vessel. Also Newsroom (aka soapbox) is confusing passenger certification and classification of waters.
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It makes me wonder, how the other local blog could run such a false and misleading piece.
For those running about Dunoon, convinced by the Cowal Courier piece, are they guilty of naivety or is it gullibility? To be fair it is more likely that the politicians are just exploiting their desperation. I have been in Cowal long enough not to get my hopes up, as it is spin, spin and lies.
I would have more respect for the politicians if they could be straight and honest, however I realise that this is an oxymoron. The feasibility study is just a further smoke screen for delay, and others should not get their hopes up. If the Deloitte and Touche report was correct why 14 years later has this not been sorted? Since then there have been legal changes, the EC report, the over-capacity and the current financial pressure, really what is another feasibility study going to show.
If the SNP could have made good on their promises, then they would have, simple. The legal and financial barriers are too great, simple. Come on Mike Russell be honest with us.
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Why do you conclude the other article is false?
The other site is run by a journalist who has worked for several papers and won awards. On the other hand ForArgyll makes it clear that it voices its own biased opinion, not news, and it does not seem to have any status as a news and information service.
There always seems to be a bit of hysteria from Newsroom (aka soapbox) if the pro vehicle ferry campaign makes headway, Newsroom would not be getting sponsorship from somewhere would it?
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It is false, if Ales Neil had so directed, do you not think that he and his colleagues would have been shouting it from the roof tops.
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Of course he would have been.
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“On the other hand ForArgyll makes it clear that it voices its own biased opinion” what’s wrong with honesty, If they said they do not have a biased opinion would they be dishonest. What’s wrong in acknowledging your “faults”.
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Agreed, For Argyll has the ability to voice its own opinion. As has everyone else.
Ferryman has a different opinion, that is what makes a debate. However you should play the ball not the player, i.e. deal with the issues and stop making personal attacks on the person.
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There are two websites giving different opinions I asked why you chose one over the other.
The Cowal Courier, though I don’t like all that they publish, seems more credible to me.
One reason for this is that Newsroom seems quite happy to misrepresent facts. In a previous thread Newsroom clearly said that the AliCat did not not have an Exemption Certificate (it did because I have seen one with my own eyes). Newsroom then went on to try and claim it had not said there was no certificate – despite what was written in the article.
In this article Newsroom is refering to “a lack of current paperwork”. What paperwork is this, or does Newstrrom just not know what it is talking about?
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Newsroom (aka soapbox) campaigned for a passenger only ferry service. We got one but the bathtubs are just not up to the job. Does Newsroom say sorry, I was wrong, nope. Instead it carries on almost seeming to argue that we don’t need a passenger only service, too much capacity etc. Any progress made by people arguing for larger vehicle ferries is met by slightly hysterical and inaccurate articles.
When a third bathtub is put on for Cowal Games newsroom unbelievably welcomes this!
When I posted the comment above I expected newsroom to respond with howls of protest abouts its editorial independence and journalistic integrity. Instead there was silence – perhaps newsroom did not read the comment?
So newsroom do you have sponsors, do you get grants from the Council? If you do have sponsors who are they?
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I think Alex Niel did tell Archie Robertson to use a vehicle ferry on the route.
He had just seen the Flyer off for several days in June and the MCA slapping an enforcement notice on AFL which is going to be strictly monitored. Winter is fast approaching (sorry) and with it the prospects of days on end of disrupted service.
If he gives CalMac money for another bathtub boat he faces being sucked down the plughole of a PR disaster when it too fails to sail. The solution sits at Roseneath each winter, the Coruisk.
I bet Alex Neil has told Archie Robertson to use the Coruisk for the winter. Not before time, lets hope they get it in place before the Cowal Games.
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There is much debate about, who said what and which web site is correct, finaly found one site I am sure no one can find fault with.
http://newsthump.com/2012/08/07/nick-clegg-finds-out-what-it-feels-like-to-be-repeatedly-lied-to-by-politicians/
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Ferryman- I bet Alex Neil has told Archie Robertson to use the Coruisk for the winter. Not before time, lets hope they get it in place before the Cowal Games.
Maybe this is a ridiculous comment, but if you remember a streaker was used last year, but for passengers only!
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Don’t mention streakers! Someone might want the Saturn dragged out from behind the pier at Rosneath and stuck on the Dunoon run again!
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Yes, the Saturn was used last year. Silly just to use it for passengers, but very sensible to have it on the run for the games.
What would have happened last year if heaven forbid the wind had come from the East and the Flyer could not run, or it was a bit choppy and both the Ali Cat and the Flyer were off.
A lot of foot passengers come to the Cowal Games. If the bathtubs don’t run it is going to be a big issue so it makes sense to put a decent ship on the route.
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From the Dunoon Observer – ARGYLL Ferries confirmed this week that troubled passenger ferry Clyde Clipper will be leased to supplement AliCat and Argyll Flyer on the Dunoon-Gourock route’s busiest day of the year – Cowal Games Saturday.
However, the news has been met with dismay by ferry campaigners.
Not a rosy decision!
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This is entirely consistent with the statement we were given by Transport Scotland.
It is a relief to see this particular action taken. It is playing a straight bat with Dunoon, not sending mixed signals and giving rise to expectations that cannot be satisfied.
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In what sense is this a relief newsroom?
Cowal Games is of major importance to the local economy. We are now going to be using three bathtubs and gambling on good weather.
The Clyde Clipper was used on the passenger only service for a week or two at the start, she kept breaking down. The Argyll Flyer cancels if the wind comes from the east. The AliCat can only sail if its clear. None of them can sail once the water gets choppy.
If we are lucky the weather will be good. If the weather is bad there could be a lot of disgruntled travellers and they may well think twice about coming back in future years as well.
This is a huge gamble.
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The world is simply just fully empty for you. Always negative, always with the scaremongering.
“we’re doomed captain mannering”
I don’t know ferryman it just seems as if you need to find some joy.
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I don’t like incompetence. I disagree with a passenger only ferry but if they put one in in needs to be one that works.
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Peter just to be a total anorak it’s not Mnnering it’s Mainwaring.Just thought you’d like to know.
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Yeah i know i left an e out of Mannering.
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No you didn’t. I have days like that too.
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The Observer showed a picture of people streaming of the Saturn for last year’s Cowal Games. The car deck and ramp look full and people are queuing to come down the stairs onto the car deck. There are a lot of brollies up.
Saturn carried around 500 passengers. The Clyde Clipper and the other bathtubs only carry about 250 people each. So this year the capacity on the route will have been reduced by 25% from 1000 to 750 passengers – assuming the bathtubs run ( with possible prosecutions in the offing that is a big assumption ).
The Saturn also had two substantial saloons as well as covered deck spaces. The bathtubs will be much more cramped if it raining.
This seems a very blikered approach, just looking at ferry costs in isolation and ignoring the risk to the Cowal Games.
Maybe the weather will be good this year, but this solution is going to come unstuck one year.
Decent sized ferries that can cope with the weather are needed on this route.
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1020 Argyll Flyer has just gone off the Dunoon -Gourock run winds are 7-12 Mph and bright and sunny, rough at Gourock berth.
Fail to see how any pontoons is going to improve this situation.
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Yes, it is bright and sunny weather we would be pleased to have for Cowal Games. But one of the bathtubs cannot cope with the breeze! If this happens at the Games the capacity on the route will have dropped by 50% compared with last year (more if the other bathtubs cannot run). Large numbers of people cannot simply make their way Western because they too are limited on how many passengers they can carry.
Maybe the weather will be good, maybe it will be bad, but this is a ridiculous gamble.
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It is now 12:00 and that is the Argyll Ferry service suspended, to be reviewed at 15:00!
I have had a look at various websites and the wind does not seem to be more than about 20mph.
Neither of the current bathtubs are fit for the purpose of running a regular ferry service on the Firth of Clyde. As has been said all along larger vessels are needed.
What is your solution for this newsroom (aka soapbox). You were in favour of using the bathtubs for the Games, where do you stand now?
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My wife was going for the 12.50 ferry as she had an appointment at Inverclyde Hospital, needless to say ferry cancelled, so appointment had to be cancelled at short notice. This is the second time this appointment has been cancelled for the same reason.
Western still running, and from my living I have just watched a yacht sail passed !
Those coming for Cowal Games will have problems if the weather is as Agryll Ferries call it ” strong easterly winds” – what anyone else in there right mind would call a “breeze”
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Argyll ferries still seem to be off.
This is really farcical.
The weather is not so nice now, but its well within normal for this part of the world.
Had this been Games day it would have been a total disaster.
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