But then, Malcolm, as I understand it, not …

Comment posted Will a (subsidised?) £10k buy SPR calmer waters in Tiree? by Alex McKay.

But then, Malcolm, as I understand it, not everyone on Tiree will be “fighting” SPR in a Court of Law, so if your advice is adopted, those who won’t be doing so can have a larger share!

Alex McKay also commented

  • Karl, the 10k is not being offered to all the islanders – “Works out at 12.8pounds for each islander” – but specifically to those who want to gain qualifications, so dividing the sum by the number of islanders is the sort of ungrateful response that I’m sure those hoping to benefit from the money will find particularly unhelpful.

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22 Responses to But then, Malcolm, as I understand it, not …

  1. Your ref to ” peddling beads etc ” is not a NTA original statement as such,but a quote from evidence to Scottish Govt
    ECONOMY, ENERGY AND TOURISM COMMITTEEE.

    NTA endorses the statement which was part of a wider statement re developers ignoring the guidelines of their own industry organisation Scottish Renewables, regarding supposed community benefit proposals. You make reference to this in a a subsequent paragraph.

    This SPR “sweetie” to quote SPR, would ” if a decision was made not to progress the Array project at any time ,any commitments which had been made ….. would be honoured but SPR would not establish an annual fund for new candidates”

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  2. http://www.offshorewind.biz/2012/07/11/scottishpower-renewables-invests-in-renewable-energy-skills/?utm_source=Offshore+Wind.biz&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=a9e7722a2f-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN
    So there we have it we Tiree; is now a becoming a cheaply bought pawn in the big commercial energy imperialism game. Trying to by out at any level is wrong. Even the supporters of industrial wind can’t don’t support such underhand antics asScottish Renewables have so rightly said:
    ‘Community benefit contributions are not material planning considerations and, therefore, should not be discussed until after planning consent is achieved. In the interests of complete impartiality and fairness, Scottish Renewables would strongly argue that any community benefit payments be kept entirely separate from the planning process.’ Kind of puts this in a nutshell. I am sure the NTA campaign could match the contribution for training in relevant to the location studies “environmental management” etcetera. The Tiree windfall could do the same.NTA have already sponsored three MMO’s (marine mammal observers) Laughable…totally laughable ! and totally desparate. I really hope we are not going to go down this path…how much is a dead Basking Shark worth, dead Tern, dead tourism. SPR can buy me out if they wish…but 30 pieces of silver won’t be enough…35km off our shores might if the EIA is acceptable. :)
    karl

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  3. Sorry, how is this something to complain about? Isn’t this £10k the community didn’t previously have, that now it does? Of course they will stop paying if they have to leave. Would you expect them to do anything else?

    Karl, 5 months ago you asked Scottish Power to fund a playpark.

    http://antirisdeach.com/community-announcements/argyll-array-project-update-25-febrary-2012/

    Why was that ok, but this not? You asked for more money – was that the problem? Presumably not, as you state above that ‘Trying to by (sic) out at any level is wrong’.

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    • This tiddler will simply trickle into the ground and vanish. It is very unlikely to benefit the island. A playpark is a playpark.

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      • So the amount is the problem newsroom?

        I know when I was studying I would have preferred a spare few hundred pounds to a playpark. What does a playpark have to do with a windfarm?

        This seems to be useful for all parties. Does anyone who lives on Tiree and stands to benefit from this actually not want some additional funding? I’d have thought this would be a very welcome gift.

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        • A playpark has nothing to do with a playpark..well done.Poor me?
          I am sure you would have liked a few hundred extra quid when you was studying…Renewables was it? Fact is we have 90 kids on the island and one playpark away from where most of the kids live…the area in question is Pier View. If you live on Tiree it’s the place where the kids play in the street…it’s also where the young mothers have to push prams and take kids along the busiest road on Tiree…you must have noticed the potholes? no foot path…you must have noticed the way ferry traffic backs up behind them on the way to the shops. Come on they are children.Final fact is Tilley will probably pay for it…community wind not multi-national carpet baggers.

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    • Not quite true…the kids at the school got a petition together and I asked SPR if they would consider it…it would have been a legacy and have had nothing to do with the long term outcome of the array…whether they stayed or whether they had left…given we have had 2 years of pressure on tiree it would have been a token getrure that would have been totally independent of the proposa, and a thanks for all the hassle this is causing…they could have built it out of left over carbon fiber blades. It would have been built by local builders..Whom ever you are this is a very cheap shot. Another point SPR spout that local jobs will be created by the array…yet they will not state how many 1 so far….local jobs that might keep one or two kids on the island rather than have to move away…fair enough another soggy carrot…renewables training ! come on if the array hopefully does not go ahead and one or two have had training they are going to move away…kind of defeats the object no? If they wanted to do something for the community on a non-bias basis…they could have got the school painted…funded a full time music teacher (ours is to be hopefully funded by Tilley) Music on Tiree is a cultural root that needs support. Wind energy is a “blow in” bulldozer to the Tiree culture.

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        • Who knows ? Webcraft. We will find out soon enough. Even if they had said we will sponsor one pupil each year for the next 10 years it would have shown an act of corprate responsibility…I’m still trying to get over this, frankly, joke. Maybe they know that the array is beat by the environmental aspects/technical aspects/fiscal aspects…seems a very odd gesture.

          Laughable really, I have just bought a 16m x 4m extra bit of ground behind one of our houses for 10,000 quid from the duke, and it never made the “who owns scotland” web space :)

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  4. AB: I would have thought that wind farm developers were into ‘sweeteners’ for obvious reasons, and maybe their notion is that not only does every person have their price, so does every community.

    Time will prove whether this theory proves correct, but what already seems to be abundantly apparent (with the accent on ‘abundant’) is just how colossal the sweeteners are that currently get offered to the developers in an attempt to fulfil the national green energy norm. It looks as if the government are aware of this, the way they’re now trying to slow the gravy train.

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    • Works out at 12.8pounds for each islander..thanks SPR you have offered to by a round of drinks…bloody cheek! Shows how much Tiree means to these people. Maybe they would have paid a little more if the Spanish economy wasn’t so bad.

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      • Karl, the 10k is not being offered to all the islanders – “Works out at 12.8pounds for each islander” – but specifically to those who want to gain qualifications, so dividing the sum by the number of islanders is the sort of ungrateful response that I’m sure those hoping to benefit from the money will find particularly unhelpful.

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  5. Karl
     
    I don’t see any mention of a petition in that link above.  Regardless of that, this fund assists, as far as I can see, training in pretty much anything from a university degree to a skippers ticket, to MMO training like the NTA sponsored.  Do you really think that is a joke?  How many people on Tiree would appreciate a bit of assistance in paying for training?  There doesn’t appear to be anything in the rules about having to use that training specifically for windfarm work – it seems like a pretty generous, no strings attached gift to me. 
     
    You’ve complained that it’s not enough, yet in the same breath said that buying out at any level is wrong.  These seem about as mutually exclusive as supporting or rallying against wind developments based on their ownership rather than the individual merits of the project…
     
    You did come up with one good idea though – NTA could match the contribution for training.  You said you’re sure NTA could manage this.  I say you should put your money where your mouth is.  This would at least show that NTA had the best interests of Tiree at heart, rather than the ramblings of a small minority that are anti change.

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      • But then, Malcolm, as I understand it, not everyone on Tiree will be “fighting” SPR in a Court of Law, so if your advice is adopted, those who won’t be doing so can have a larger share!

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  6. I think AB has a fair point. This is a small sum of money which will provide a small amount of assistance to a small number of people who might want to study engineering or another relevant discipline. It won’t fund much training but could provide a useful help with e.g. the extra travel costs incurred by island residents who go to the mainland to study.

    Who knows, perhaps some of the youngsters (or oldsters) on Tiree who have an interest in engineering feel encouraged or even excited at the possibility of being able to follow their vocation without having to move away from their home?

    The sum involved is too small to be interpreted as a bung and is, at least, aimed at alleviating the accusation always levelled at ‘big wind’ developers that they provide no employment or prospects for locals. Painting schools and funding playparks, on the other hand, is exactly the kind of ‘beads for the natives’ gesture which is so often derided, and I’m quite surprised that those who are dead against the array are happy to be seen requesting them.

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    • Tim. If while SPR are inter’fear’ing with our lives at every level they want to show some community payback…they would do far better to solve some of the problems that already exist on the island…problems that effect us already. 10,000 quid could make a difference to all the kids at the school. They have no intention of spending another dime once they pack-up and move on. 10,000 quid from a company the employs 33,000 people should be less than their weekly paper clip bill. A&Bc is broke, the school is a mess…it is the school that keeps Tiree vibrant my lads are 5 and 11, what use is this cash to there next years at school…bugger all. Please look at the moral behind this not the amount.

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  7. Right.
     
    “they would do far better to solve some of the problems that already exist on the island” – do you mean that lack of funding for education / skills is NOT a problem on Tiree?  That flies in the face of the rest of your comments here, so I can only assume not.  I challenge you to find a single person on Tiree, or any rural community for that matter, that think they have sufficient funding for training of young people.
     
    “10,000 quid could make a difference to all the kids at the school.” – At the start of the comments on this page, you mentioned that NTA could raise that figure, and intimated it would not be difficult.  You also mentioned you spent the same figure on purchasing a house site, yet you lambast SPR for choosing to spend their money in a different way.  SPR are providing a fund which, whilst clearly not being spent on something close to your heart, is a genuine benefit to the community.  If it means so much to you then why not focus your attentions on raising cash for that?

    “They have no intention of spending another dime once they pack-up and move on.” – in the history of time, can you point to a single occurrence where a company has promised to fund something out with their core sphere of work, ad infinitum?  Why on earth, having been refused planning, would SPR (or any company / person) continue to fund anything on Tiree once all of their interest there has been removed.  Of all the points you have made on this, this is by far the most absurd.  They’ve said they will honour any funding made to that point.  What more could you ask for?

    You’ve asked that we discuss the moral implications of this, rather than the amount of money, so I’ll say no more on that.
     
    I’m sorry that your children are likely to miss out on this.  However, every person aged 16 or over who lives on Tiree now has an opportunity to gain from this fund.  Naturally most won’t, but some will and I would have thought everyone who does will be grateful for it.  Please don’t make some comment about how not enough people will benefit from it, or those that do will not benefit enough (again, you have asked that we don’t discuss this matter).  It is more than nothing, therefore it is better for the beneficiaries of this fund than nothing.
     
    I’ve read FA for some time now and never made a comment. It’s very likely that once this conversation is over I’ll never post again.  I was pulled out of my silence as I am sick to my back teeth of these infuriating, half baked, irrelevant unanswered rants.  I’ve decided to remain anonymous as every comment I’ve made is as objective as possible.
     
    You are obviously well within your rights to disapprove of this windfarm and I’m not seeking to undermine that in any way.  However objecting to something like this benefits no one, creates unnecessary unpleasantness for all involved, and drowns out legitimate complaints and worries that others may have.
     
    For the sake of everyone who is interested in this project, both for and against, please continue to raise issues where issues lie, but stop your attack on things like this.

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    • Please wake up and smell the coffee. this is 6 quid a year for each person on tiree…a short term hand out of baubles, an insult.it has no lasting value to the community, is transient and vacuous.They have been causing distress for over 2 years…the people of tiree deserve respect. What ever side of the wind farm argument they are on.if this is the first time you have posted on this subjec…i suggest you troll your way back through the posts as interjecting at this point has as much value as the SPR crumbs from the corprate table.
      “However objecting to something like this benefits no one, creates unnecessary unpleasantness for all involved, and drowns out legitimate complaints and worries that others may have”…the voice of reason based on a veneer of knowledge of the facts ?…You don’t by the way work for SPR or have a Tiree connection in Balevullin do you ?
      “For the sake of everyone who is interested in this project, both for and against, please continue to raise issues where issues lie, but stop your attack on things like this.” This is an issue my friend…check out how these multi nationals work…they all have the same MO. this is the thin end of the wedge.

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  8. None of the above I’m afraid. Would it make anything I’ve said above less true? I’m genuinely surprised that you believe my lack of having written to For Argyll commits me to only having a ‘veneer of knowledge’. The implication of what you say above is that only SPR employees and NTA members know anything about the array – not true and you would be better to acknowledge it.

    Note that your response simply does 2 things – reiterates points you’ve previously made without taking account of anything I’ve said, and belittles my comments by advising I don’t know what I’m talking about.

    You haven’t acknowledged or debated any of the points I made above and, having asked yourself that we don’t debate the figure, go on to quote it again immediately as the chief problem.

    What a shame that you have resorted to this sort of sloppy, quasi-political tactic. I don’t know if you realise it or will acknowledge it, but this makes NTA look the fool. People who are on the fence on this project (myself included) will be driven away by this type of behaviour. I know this to be a matter of fact.

    I don’t think I will post on this website again. I had hoped for a reasoned, intellegent debate, but have instead been met with shouts and semi-insults. I hope and believe the people of Tiree can see through this – you’re right, Karl – they deserve better.

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