“Polybags – most people I know reuse them …

Comment posted Shores of Loch Long a dangerous and filthy mess with wild camping: no action from Council or National Park by John Sinclair.

“Polybags – most people I know reuse them as bin bags and dispose accordingly. Granted some people let them become litter but the vast majority don’t. Will 5p a bag make a difference? I personally doubt it.” I do agree with you that 5p a bag will not make much difference, the type of material will make all the difference. The reuse of a polybag as a bin bag could be seen as hiding the problem, it ends up in a landfill site, hidden from view, yes, but still there for future generations to deal with. I do not know what the solution is, but can we not use this litter problem as a wake up call and find a solution together. Asbestos is one of the biggest industrial killers in Scotland I am told, we try not to use it now, could plastic in the food chain be the next biggest killer. Plastic is cheap up front, but what’s the long term cost.

John Sinclair also commented

  • Graeme, I enjoyed reading your post along with all the other posts and understanding other peoples views. Litter is a life threatening problem, our oceans are suffocating with plastic waste. The putting of a monetary value on containers seems a great way forward, would like to hear more on this subject. I accept re-use is far more advance than recycling, personally I would like to see reducing at the top end of the three Rs.
    Reduce, reuse and recycle.
  • With reference to the previous post. Why solve the litter problem, make it an issue, pull down more funding so it will finance monuments and get more by-laws, so pull down more funding. I think its known as empire building. Invest in education it empowers people to make their own decisions.

Recent comments by John Sinclair

  • The independence campaign: personal gains and loss
    Read my older posts Karl, you might just get a inkling of were I am going from were I have come.
    And for you Richard grow up for once, grow a pair of yesticles, your antics no longer have any amusement value left, enjoy snuggling into your processions. And finally this comment is for Robert, just go out and buy a bigger car, and then buy a bigger car, you will never ever be happy, you have no love in you, no happiness. They are not my words they are from a man whose house is
    filled with happiness and caring and love for everyone.“I lost the friends that needed losing / found others on the way.”
  • The independence campaign: personal gains and loss
    Karl what do I deserve, come on spit it out, if I give it I should be able to take it. Come on then what do I deserve, let everyone known, is your true personality coming out now. Just say it you will feel a lot better.
  • The independence campaign: personal gains and loss
    “now stop your nonsense”
    Strange, the Yes movement has driven that change you are talking about, without it the ruling hands of Westminster would still have a firm grip round all our throats, we are prising them away to let us all breath clearly once again. Some people are so selfish, just me,me,me.
  • The independence campaign: personal gains and loss
    Got to go, enjoy working abroad and using Scotland as a hotel and play thing when you pop back. We want change, we want a good future for the generations to come. We will put a stop to the export trade of the youth because there’s no hope left in their home nation. This is due to the greed of Westminster. Change is here, the yes movement has driven it, there is a society here we need each other we are on that road.
  • The independence campaign: personal gains and loss
    “Remember the silent Jnr…which way will they vote YOU do not know…”
    Talk of 97% register to vote, talk of 80% plus voting, a big block of people who didn’t even have a voice have registered to vote, many for the first time in their adult life. They are not going to stay silent for much longer.

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27 Responses to “Polybags – most people I know reuse them …

  1. Oddly enough I am reading this article having just finished a beach clean with a friend along the shore at Inveraray. Plastic bags, fishing line, beer cans etc. etc.
    The problem is everywhere here in Argyll and I’m sure it’s getting worse.

    From first hand experience I can confirm that Loch Fyne and Loch Awe are horrendous in places.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  2. It could be argued that the National Park doesn’t have the resources to go around clearing rubbish, but it seems to be able to afford some fairly costly – if unimpressive – trunk road monuments to itself, from the clumsy wood and flimsy wire thing on Stoneymollan (Balloch) roundabout to the new stone chimneys marking the park boundaries. So why shouldn’t it fund regular litter patrols of the shore?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  3. With reference to the previous post. Why solve the litter problem, make it an issue, pull down more funding so it will finance monuments and get more by-laws, so pull down more funding. I think its known as empire building. Invest in education it empowers people to make their own decisions.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  4. Robert it cannot be argued that our tax pounds should be spent cleaning up after trollops that don’t deserve or properly care about our country side. Why not hi-jack a lesser story to make your other point but don’t distract from what is a real and very urgent issue that needs action. I understand your feelings about the momuments but this does not pardon people leaving the their rubbish for decent folk to pick up. I do several beach sweeps a year at Dalchenna just south of Inveraray we also have fly tipping and camping waste left on the furnace coast road on a regular basis. I am all for access to the country side but not at this cost. Like the no win no fee legisilation I fear this is another genie that will not go back in the bottle of good intentions.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  5. John Patrick: I think that some of our tax pounds should indeed be spent on ‘cleaning up after trollops that don’t deserve or properly care about our countryside’.
    We live in a society that includes a substantial minority of people who are very resistant to being educated not to foul their own nest – seemingly because it’s a country nest, and they’re city people.
    I’d no intention of ‘hijacking a lesser story’ – Loch Lomond National Park was set up to protect a national asset, but the park authority needs to examine its priorities, and it’s no good doing a thorough job of safeguarding the fringe of the area from the effects of gold mining at Cononish but failing to pay enough attention to the historic problems of garbage dumping around the shores of Loch Lomond and a short stretch of Loch Long.

    The same applies to Argyll & Bute Council, with regard to the shores, inter alia, of Loch Awe, Loch Fyne and most of Loch Long. I don’t think it’s reasonable to rely on volunteers such as yourself cleaning up after these people and – in any case – there just aren’t enough civic-minded folk to cope with the task.

    I don’t know if it’s worse here than elsewhere in Britain, but a lot of it is associated (in my mind, at least) with a tradition of summer visitors, predominantly from the Glasgow area; ‘wild camping’ and drunkenness play their part but unfortunately aren’t always responsible. Some years ago I was stuck in slow moving traffic between Luss and Inverbeg and saw the seemingly respectable elderly couple in the car behind me dump the remains of their lunch out of the window, ‘disposible’ cups, plates, wrappings and all. At Tarbet I stopped where they couldn’t overtake, got out and told them what I though of them. They were astonished, as if it hadn’t occurred to them that they were doing wrong.
    The Furnace coast road seems to be the sort of tucked-away track that invites fly dumping, and the short answer is that while we have the ‘right to roam’ in the countryside, maybe we shouldn’t always have the right to drive – tracks and forestry roads could have barriers other than gates to enable cyclists, pushchairs etc free passage, but to block vehicles.
    I suggested this at the time of the the recent murder trial where the victim might have been dumped somewhere in Argyll – it attracted a scream of outrage from one commentator, but – like properly accounting for properly clearing garbage from ‘the wilderness’ – I think it’s necessary, it’s part of the cost of living until human behaviour changes.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    • Robert, you are so right in that most of these ignorant people leaving litter are not local folk, as when my husband and I do our frequent litter collections along the Loch Long shoreline road, frequently pick up till receipts from supermarkets in and around the Glasgow area.

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  6. Scotland is a nation of clarity middens. Decades of education has failed to touch these ejits,

    Hopefully the Scottish government will implement SNP party policy and introduce a compulsory refundable deposit on all containers, cans and bottles so that if the ejits wan to give up 50 p by leaving litter about some else will. just think, pick up 14 articles in one hour and you’ve made the equivalent of the minimum wage hourly rate.

    Giving litter a value will resolve the problem. refundable deposits don’t cost consumers since the deposits are refunded; councils will spend less on litter and refuse collection; our urban and rural landscapes will be pristine; and retailers and manufacturers will be forced to think about how they package products.

    The most forward thinking nations in Scandinavia are concentrating not so much on recycling but re-use.

    Let’s make Scotland the leader iin reusable containers

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  7. Graeme, I enjoyed reading your post along with all the other posts and understanding other peoples views. Litter is a life threatening problem, our oceans are suffocating with plastic waste. The putting of a monetary value on containers seems a great way forward, would like to hear more on this subject. I accept re-use is far more advance than recycling, personally I would like to see reducing at the top end of the three Rs.
    Reduce, reuse and recycle.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  8. Is putting the price up going to be Scotland’s answer to all social problems? e.g.

    Polybags – most people I know reuse them as bin bags and dispose accordingly. Granted some people let them become litter but the vast majority don’t. Will 5p a bag make a difference? I personally doubt it.

    Alcohol – some Scots comsume too much, (most don’t) and there is a major problem with drunken louts in all of our towns and cities. Will 50p a unit change this? I personally doubt this.

    Camping litter – yes this is a problem but again will giving everything a value change habits? I personally doubt it.

    The Access legislation always seemed to me to be a loosely written (yes another one) piece of legislation from the SG. Does nobody play the devils advocate in either of our parliaments?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  9. “Polybags – most people I know reuse them as bin bags and dispose accordingly. Granted some people let them become litter but the vast majority don’t. Will 5p a bag make a difference? I personally doubt it.” I do agree with you that 5p a bag will not make much difference, the type of material will make all the difference. The reuse of a polybag as a bin bag could be seen as hiding the problem, it ends up in a landfill site, hidden from view, yes, but still there for future generations to deal with. I do not know what the solution is, but can we not use this litter problem as a wake up call and find a solution together. Asbestos is one of the biggest industrial killers in Scotland I am told, we try not to use it now, could plastic in the food chain be the next biggest killer. Plastic is cheap up front, but what’s the long term cost.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    • Wouldn’t a more radical approach be to adopt what the French do and not provide polybags full stop. The majority of French people go to the supermarket with bags or boxes in their boot and simply unpack the trolley into their car when they get back to the car park.

      You can buy bags if you need some but I am sure it is a lot more than 5p each – I can’t remember exactly how much it is but it could be as much as a euro a bag (guessing there).

      I am sure it would cause a lot of moaning initially but in France it is now just accepted as a normal way of life and there is no reason why that wouldn’t be the case in Britain after an adjustment period.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  10. An absolute disgrace – these ‘ Urban fisherman’ taint the reputation of true anglers who leave nothing more than foot prints.

    If we can tackle guns, knives and alcohol head-on why don’t we have a zero tolerance litter policy for this type of behaviour?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    • Aye, noticed the rubbish at the head of the loch last time we were there…some of it was obviously from the forestry operations…but most of it was from urbanites…easy enough to see the food recipts from GLA.

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  11. We might just be going backwards – the verges of the A83 in mid Argyll have identifiable rubbish that hasn’t been collected for many months, and I distinctly remember a time not long ago when the council (not Scotland Transerv) operated a dedicated team whose job was to clean the road verges; I wonder if this team has been axed to save money?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    • Robert, I’m sure you’re right about these teams probably having been axed, but as a thought why can’t a huge number of people on community service be deployed in picking up litter around Argyll & Bute on a regular basis…although I suspect more red tape excuses will be made and therefore prevent it from happening, and we are back to square one???

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  12. Pingback: News about packaging suppliers issue #1 » UK packaging

  13. Great comments! The difference between a refundable deposit and a charge is that there is no cost to those who obtain their refund. It seems a dreadful waste of money that councils need to have special litter squads. There is also an argument that if refundable deposits on alcoholic containers had been introduced instead of minimum charge cod have had a similar effect;

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  14. Anyone who thinks that “most ” people reuse shopping bags should have a look at the trolleys leaving Tesco and the Co-op on any busy shopping day where they will see vast numbers of new polythene bags heading out of store for the environment. I am sure that Oban is no different from other centres and it is clear that although some shops do not actively encourage new bag use a sizeable proportion of the populace either does not know or does not care about the consequences. Will charging for bags make a difference? It certainly is worth a try in spite of the protests of Jamie McGrigor about adding to shoppers’ costs when the choice is surely at the discretion of the shopper.

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    • Totally agree Ken. Its a total waste to leave the shops with half a dozen bags every time and very damaging when put to landfill or ugly when blown about the countryside.
      Bags for life are catching on but not enough to make a great differnce.

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  15. This is not wilderness camping & it is wrong to call it so.
    This is fly tipping. We have wilderness camping on Tiree, have luckly not seen any on this scale. (source)Retail stores are partly to blame, eduction is also partly to blame…but ultimately the folks who do this should face the consequences of their actions and be heavily fine. 20 quid here or 200 there is not enough. The problem lies at source, fine the retailer…fine the fly tipper…fund the management of the problem.

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  16. It’s interesting that it’s usually been ‘Travellers’ who have been blamed for leaving roadside laybys in a mess. Hence the (unenforceable) ‘No Overnight Parking’ signs.
    In my experience the Urban Tinkers are much worse.

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  17. hi guys i would just like to say that i frequently enjoy wild camping on loch long ardgatten side with my 10 year old son. i am from Clydebank and enjoy weekends in the Argyll forest park. yes there is a minority of un educated filthy clatty middens who don’t appreciate this wonderfully beautiful country. but don’t be discouraged i for one am responsible camper taking with me all trash an leaving my site as found. im sure im not the only one.

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    • unfortunately its not posible to police the decent moraly responsible visitors to your beutifule area but i hope you dont judge all b the falts of the few

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