Comment posted McGrigor tables parliamentary questions on A83 by ferryman.
I pay road taxes too. Why should the Forth Road Bridge costing billions be free to use but a Firth of Clyde vehicle ferry requires dues paid to a private company?
By having two ferry companies operating the risk of both halting for any length of time is reduced. Short term reductions are also reduced, weather might halt one but not the other. If there is flooding in Gourock, as happens, there are options. The system is more robust and there is competition.
I take it you don’t want a private company charging tolls on the A83 at the “Rest” without any cap on charges or profits?
If you don’t want that then what is your objection to others seeking to have not a free service but one on which there is at least an element of competition?
ferryman also commented
- Given the state of the roads and ferries I am beginning to wonder.
I don’t have a closed mind but I judge abilities by track record. If the Government and Transport Scotland cannot do something simple like introduce a reliable passenger ferry service why on earth should I think them capable of more complex tasks?
The Ali Cat was already running, badly, on the route. All they had to do was use their ears to listen to the people who were warning them and their eyes to see the evidence. A little brainwork might not have gone amiss writing the contract either.
- Again, unlike you, I try to use the passenger only service on a regular basis. Foot passengers want vehicle ferries because they are big enough to run reliably.
You could mention tunnels – if you are trying to make a joke.
The Government and Transport Scotland have demonstrated they are incapable of introducing something as simple as a passenger service that operates reliably in the weather on the Firth of Clyde. What makes you think they remotely have the ability to build a tunnel?From their performance on the current ferry service they would no doubt write a contract that did not require the tunnel to keep the water out.
- Unlike you I am a regular user of Western and have been for many years. Nowhere have I said I dislike them, they provide an essential service.
What I do dislike very much is the new situation of reliance on a single private operator without price control. Western is very unlikely to go broke, but they might have a strike, suffer an accident or have a run of mechanical failures.
Here is a solution for the A83; we give the “Rest” to a private operator to solve the landslip problem then we let them charge a toll on its use with no limits or control on the prices they can charge or the profits they make.
Presumably you would be in favour of that, if not what is the difference with the ferry situation over the Firth of Clyde? - I can answer that one for Mr McGrigor – the alternative route for the A83 will not be in place by Autumn 2012. I think that is a safe bet don’t you?
An even more important question is when will a final solution for the A83 be in place? Lets say the emergency route were in place and the A83 then closes completely for 1-2months, would that be an acceptable situation?
What happens is both the A82 and the A83 close simultaneously? What happens if a big slide takes out both the A83 and the emergency road for months?
Why do we now have only one vehicle ferry crossing of the Firth of Clyde providing an alternative route?
Does no planning, integration and investment in transport and routes take place in the West of Scotland?
Recent comments by ferryman
- Reminder: Argyll Ferries on ‘refit’ service schedule
The scottish Government has failed to deliver on the transferable ferry tickets it was going to setup. The bus scheme is a bodge that adds anything upto two hours to travel time.Any news on what they are going to do for Cowal Games or are they just going to try another gamble on the weather.
- New Campbeltown ferry pilot – a whale beached before it starts
They did not refuse to give car/ferry passenger service to Dunoon – they took it away!They went back on a maniefesto committment to provide new vehicle ferries and then to cap it all they made an incompetent botch by putting in a totally and uttery unreliable passenger only service.
- Inexplicable blame game from MSP on lack of cross-ticketing on Dunoon ferries
“no carrier could justify running a heavier and thirstier craft than necessary”The “than necessary” is the critical point. If you are specifying a commuter service to get people to and from work, hospital college etc. then it is necessary and perfectly possible to specify vessels able to operate reliably on the Clyde.
What you do not do is accept vessels which regularly and repeatedly fail to run for days at a time.
Newsroom wrote “physical facts are the physical facts”, they are indeed and the current bathtubs are far too small for reliable operation. In any case the Ali Cat was operating unreliably on the route already so her current performance is no surprise.
- Inexplicable blame game from MSP on lack of cross-ticketing on Dunoon ferries
I take exception to your statement that “The Argyll Ferries’ passenger boats, being necessarily lighter craft, are more prone to delay and cancellation in a bit of a blow”.Transport Scotland should have specified vessels able to provide a reliable service. They did not hence the problem.
Also the gentleman referred to in the article in the Observer concluded by saying he did not want a lot of energy devoted to cross ticketing etc he wanted it devoted to the getting his town centre ferry service taking him to the trains to work.
That of course makes sense because even if he could transfer totally reliably to and from Western at no cost at all he would still be late for work.
- Western Ferries: new sailings, inflation rises in fares – and protection for concessions
“the consensus seemed to be that they would be too expensive to be used as passenger only ferries”Exactly. Here you have ferries known to be reliable in the sea conditions on the route, able to operate at a fantastic profit when carrying vehicles but not economic carrying only passengers.
AF are suspended again today, they were off all day yesterday, because they use bathtubs not remotely suited for the purpose to which they are being put.
The sensible thing is to use larger ferries on the town centre route and let them carry vehicles. As CalMac demonstrated, before the Government of the day stopped them, putting on more sailings increased revenue and cut subsidy.
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I can answer that one for Mr McGrigor – the alternative route for the A83 will not be in place by Autumn 2012. I think that is a safe bet don’t you?
An even more important question is when will a final solution for the A83 be in place? Lets say the emergency route were in place and the A83 then closes completely for 1-2months, would that be an acceptable situation?
What happens is both the A82 and the A83 close simultaneously? What happens if a big slide takes out both the A83 and the emergency road for months?
Why do we now have only one vehicle ferry crossing of the Firth of Clyde providing an alternative route?
Does no planning, integration and investment in transport and routes take place in the West of Scotland?
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With regard to your comments on vehicle ferries, there may only be one route crossing the Clyde from Dunoon, but there seem usually to be four ferries on this route and they clearly represent a substantial investment – and it’s obviously an exaggeration to claim that there’s ‘..no planning, integration and investment in transport and routes…in the West of Scotland’
A lack of planning, integration and investment would be fair comment, but your comments seem to be distorted by your dislike of Western Ferries.
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Unlike you I am a regular user of Western and have been for many years. Nowhere have I said I dislike them, they provide an essential service.
What I do dislike very much is the new situation of reliance on a single private operator without price control. Western is very unlikely to go broke, but they might have a strike, suffer an accident or have a run of mechanical failures.
Here is a solution for the A83; we give the “Rest” to a private operator to solve the landslip problem then we let them charge a toll on its use with no limits or control on the prices they can charge or the profits they make.
Presumably you would be in favour of that, if not what is the difference with the ferry situation over the Firth of Clyde?
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As it stands at present we pay road taxes to use the roads, although a lot of the money harvested seems to be diverted away from caring for the roads. We pay separately to use the ferries – although I’m in favour of RET or even free ferries, paid for from road taxation. I think you do dislike WF, otherwise your criticism doesn’t always stack up, and I wonder if you’ve been spoilt for choice compared with other ferry users (except those in Orkney)? The risks of disruption to WF services are surely no different to those of Calmac except for industrial action – where WF have the benefit of operating their own terminals, whereas Calmac sometimes don’t.
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I pay road taxes too. Why should the Forth Road Bridge costing billions be free to use but a Firth of Clyde vehicle ferry requires dues paid to a private company?
By having two ferry companies operating the risk of both halting for any length of time is reduced. Short term reductions are also reduced, weather might halt one but not the other. If there is flooding in Gourock, as happens, there are options. The system is more robust and there is competition.
I take it you don’t want a private company charging tolls on the A83 at the “Rest” without any cap on charges or profits?
If you don’t want that then what is your objection to others seeking to have not a free service but one on which there is at least an element of competition?
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I could suggest a tunnel as the ideal answer but I know you’ve got a closed mind about that, and – as I doubt whether an ‘element of competition’ would lead to much of a reduction in vehicle charges on the ferries, while it would undoubtedly suit vehicle traffic to the detriment of the improvement of passenger facilities on the ‘traditional route’ – I’m not that sympathetic. It seems to me that your interests don’t represent those of foot passengers, who aren’t well served.
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Again, unlike you, I try to use the passenger only service on a regular basis. Foot passengers want vehicle ferries because they are big enough to run reliably.
You could mention tunnels – if you are trying to make a joke.
The Government and Transport Scotland have demonstrated they are incapable of introducing something as simple as a passenger service that operates reliably in the weather on the Firth of Clyde. What makes you think they remotely have the ability to build a tunnel?
From their performance on the current ferry service they would no doubt write a contract that did not require the tunnel to keep the water out.
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Q.E.D. – a closed mind, or d’you think you’re living in the third world?
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Given the state of the roads and ferries I am beginning to wonder.
I don’t have a closed mind but I judge abilities by track record. If the Government and Transport Scotland cannot do something simple like introduce a reliable passenger ferry service why on earth should I think them capable of more complex tasks?
The Ali Cat was already running, badly, on the route. All they had to do was use their ears to listen to the people who were warning them and their eyes to see the evidence. A little brainwork might not have gone amiss writing the contract either.
Like or Dislike:
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