Comment posted Senior opposition members of council not obviously keen to work by Integrity? Not in the CondemAll.
It is factually correct to say they are unpaid places because sitting on, or not sitting on, these committees makes no difference to the salary of a Councillor (unlike some other posts which do receive an additional premium).
That said I am of the opinion that the standard councillor salary is paid for fulfilling the role of a councillor and part of that role should be to take a place in one, or more, of the necessary committees/groups etc. Any councillor refusing to take on a role should be asked to explain why they are doing so and if that explanation isn’t appropriate then they should be asked to reconsider their position as a councillor.
I do think we need to differentiate pay from expenses though. Councillors rightly receive expenses for personal cost incurred carrying out their duties. If what they claim for is within the rules set out by the Council then I have no problem with that whatsoever. There will undoubtedly be occasions where a councillor (and I mean in any council) fiddles their expenses, just as there are employees in just about every business in the country who will do likewise and what we hope is that the appropriate processes are in place to catch material breaches (and minor ones to too if possible) and then appropriate action is taken.
Whether all the journeys etc are necessary is a different discussion and brings us back to issues such as video conferencing.
Integrity? Not in the CondemAll also commented
- John,
I find it hard ot believe anyone would disagree that councillors (and all public sector staff) should be looking at ways of reducing expenses. Car sharing is an obvious one and I would hope that every public sector body promotes it (many have car sharing schemes established within the workplace). Video conferencing is another obvious area to explore and it has been discussed on here before, and suggested by some councillors. I would hope to see this progressed.
Public transport obviously depends on geography and timetable limitations, something which is a big factor in A&B. There will be many times where the additonal time lost using public transport outweighs the additional cost of taking a car instead of the bus.
- So what you’re saying is they should say ‘we are not going to fulfil the role we have been elected to fulfil unless we get to be in charge.’ Sounds to me like a pretty appalling attitude for an elected member to adopt.
Recent comments by Integrity? Not in the CondemAll
- First Minister’s choice not to condemn mob behaviour proves Farage point
Not sure if I agree with putting fascism and Islam on the same shelf (as it were).
However interestingly, and a little ironically, if there is a massively generalised criticism of the Islamic faith it is its traditional resistance/opposition to multiculturalism – a criticism that could be made of UKIP with little difficulty. - Walsh to lead all but Lib Dems, Conservatives and George Freeman
‘more honest and upfront’Really?
- First Minister’s choice not to condemn mob behaviour proves Farage point
On the issue of accusing people of being fascists I, in a rare moment, agree with Malcolm due to the people in history who have, through their actions, defined the term (although its proper definition has doens’t necessarily mean you need to be a mass murderer).It is a little bit of double standards though because in another post you refer to Farage as ‘good old’ yet he descibed the protesters as ‘fascist thugs.’ So an offensive remark by him in your eyes Malcolm?
- First Minister’s choice not to condemn mob behaviour proves Farage point
Using violence against it is obviously contradictory however it is often the action of very last resort. It is a good line by Arden although worth putting it in the context of the play it comes from which focuses on military deserters who are sickened by a war they are being forced to be a part of. Apartheid and the America civil rights movement is a very different context where years of suppression, violence, and some of the most heinous acts were committed on people for no other reason than bitter inbred prejudice. - First Minister’s choice not to condemn mob behaviour proves Farage point
The NIMBY, of all political persuasion, certainly isn’t a rare bird however their existence in place A, or of persuasion B, doesn’t detract from criticism of specific examples of it.I agree it is unsafe to use fringe views to represent a whole group and you make a fair point about the need for clarity in the overall ‘cause’. For me though, UKIP cause it not clear and I don’t see these issues as the views of a minority within the group, or a collection of rogue members.
Your point about Alex Salmond’s potential reaction to similar treatment of one of his own party (or himself) is valid and is a point I made in an earlier post. At the risk of repeating myself (well not a risk as I am doing it!) I believe the best course of action would have been for him to openly state that he didn’t approve of the actions of the crowd and, in the same statement, making it clear that the group was not representing either the SNP or the Scottish independence movement.I am sure he, as any of us would, be shaken by such an experience. The fact that there was no actual physical violence doesn’t for a second mean anger/abuse at such close proximity is not hugely intimidating and a politician, irrespective of opinion, should be allowed to perform their role without being out in a position where they are fearful for their safety. Tony Blair would, almost definitely, face a similar reaction in certain places, as would a number of other politicians over the years. Like you I would argue that this is not the best way to express discontent. Only in a very small number of occasions would I condone taking protest to the point of physical intimidation and I reserve that to some of the most significant ‘upheavals’ in modern times (examples being the fight against apartheid and the civil rights movement in the US) – even then there would be a line I, personally, couldn’t step over.
Drifting away from the point a little (although I must say it is refreshing to be debating something other than Scottish Independence or A&B Council!). My overall point is that I believe UKIP to be a party with an inherent bigotry at the core of it and this is clearly evidenced by the actions, statements, and affiliations of too many of its members for it to be brushed off as a the actions of a fringe minority. If the same number of statements (of the same nature) had been made by members of any of the mainstream parties (on both sides of the border) then they would face a far bigger backlash from the media and opposition supporters despite the actual percentage representation being far lower.
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My, how the worms have turned. Remember when the LibDems joined with the Alliance of Evil and they all couldn’t wait to get positions on these committees…
or was it just about the cash?
Argyll & Bute Council have advanced my cynicism to epic proportions
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These are unpaid positions, as we understand it, although, presumably, expenses are paid.
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“These are unpaid positions” are councillors not paid.
Expenses, say no more.
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I don’t think that I’d want to be at the forefront of yet more criticism after being relegated to the position of opposition. Time for them all to take a back seat and watch how easy the new administration find things.
Let the fun begin!
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So what you’re saying is they should say ‘we are not going to fulfil the role we have been elected to fulfil unless we get to be in charge.’ Sounds to me like a pretty appalling attitude for an elected member to adopt.
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I wouldn’t start crowing just yet newsie. There are potentially a few years(?) of this administration to go. I’ll betcha on two things – you’re going to get a far more effective opposition than you’ve ever seen on the previous council, and, there will be fractures in the ‘rag-bag alliance’* because of the ambitious and able being held back by the less-than-able-but-party-apparatchiks. And that’s without mentioning the serial flippers who have sold their principles for positions and money.
We’ll see shall we?
ps did you get your media accreditation yet???
pps When do you start your campaign to get private roads and water works adopted by the SNP-led rag bag alliance*?
*copywright newsie.
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Why the clamour for a position on the Planning Committee? Could it be that sitting on it is a more rewarding experience than on other committees?
Perhaps many of the others are too boring – or complicated.
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I think the key word you used was “rewarding”
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Newsie just how you equate your fatuous claim to integrity (“Whether or not we are always ‘right’, we are always working to be honest, objective and evidenced in what we say”) with your unsubstantiated claim that “Councillor Vivien Dance, reputedly hanging out for the bestowal from Buckingham Palace of Deputy Lord Lieutenant…? Mmm?
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Councillors sitting on the Planning Committee probably feel in a more powerful position than sitting on some of the other committees.
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I think that CSB got it right… “I think the key word you used was “rewarding”
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Simon
Right to point out the in-accuracy of reports on the royal campaign of Lord and Lady Dance – the royal wee understands an OBE would be acceptable to.
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Yes, ‘rewarding’ was the key word.
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It is factually correct to say they are unpaid places because sitting on, or not sitting on, these committees makes no difference to the salary of a Councillor (unlike some other posts which do receive an additional premium).
That said I am of the opinion that the standard councillor salary is paid for fulfilling the role of a councillor and part of that role should be to take a place in one, or more, of the necessary committees/groups etc. Any councillor refusing to take on a role should be asked to explain why they are doing so and if that explanation isn’t appropriate then they should be asked to reconsider their position as a councillor.
I do think we need to differentiate pay from expenses though. Councillors rightly receive expenses for personal cost incurred carrying out their duties. If what they claim for is within the rules set out by the Council then I have no problem with that whatsoever. There will undoubtedly be occasions where a councillor (and I mean in any council) fiddles their expenses, just as there are employees in just about every business in the country who will do likewise and what we hope is that the appropriate processes are in place to catch material breaches (and minor ones to too if possible) and then appropriate action is taken.
Whether all the journeys etc are necessary is a different discussion and brings us back to issues such as video conferencing.
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When paying for expenses should we be looking for “Best Value”, car sharing and using public transport. Video conferencing would open up the democratic process to the people and an audit trail of participation of elected and paid members of the council. Has there been a fees-ability study done on this.
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John,
I find it hard ot believe anyone would disagree that councillors (and all public sector staff) should be looking at ways of reducing expenses. Car sharing is an obvious one and I would hope that every public sector body promotes it (many have car sharing schemes established within the workplace). Video conferencing is another obvious area to explore and it has been discussed on here before, and suggested by some councillors. I would hope to see this progressed.
Public transport obviously depends on geography and timetable limitations, something which is a big factor in A&B. There will be many times where the additonal time lost using public transport outweighs the additional cost of taking a car instead of the bus.
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“There will be many times where the additional time lost using public transport outweighs the additional cost of taking a car instead of the bus.”
Totally agree with what you have stated, an individual transport vehicle will always be more flexible than public transport and may be more appropriate at low volume times. If public servants had to rely more on public transport,would this not have a positive effect on improvements on the system which many of us have no option but use. Video conferencing would seem to be a very positive option.
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Is not about time that these members of the “Old Regime” started serving the people of Argyll and Bute and put their own narrow self interest on the back burner. I see Ellen Morton in a letter in the local paper is claiming credit for the money raised for Mary’s Meals by the School dinner system effort throughout the area. Shame on You!
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