Interesting conclusion section: especially point 4., no smoke …

Comment posted on Double standards in Buddhist commune’s sale of Tharpaland to Scottish Power for wind farm? by Karl Hughes

Interesting conclusion section: especially point 4., no smoke without fire eh ?
The opening of the report does quote annoyance caused by noise, audible (though not infrasound)… one would hope that safe offsets are applied…but as to: any form of health risk been caused by infrasound this report says in a nutshell “no”
How close is this wind farm to the retreat…after all this is what the place is a retreat:http://nkt-irc-tharpaland.org/
it says it’s in a forest surely if it’s blowing the ambient noise of the trees would cancel out any noise generated by the turbines…much as the sea cancels out the noise of Tilley…
This surely cannot be the only reason the folks are leaving ! more likely I summise that they realise that paying pupils will not like what they see when they arrive at the centre… a windfarm/and not a remote house set amongst forests and hills…the vibe is gone…the peace is destroyed…the poor old borders is suffering hard at the hand of the windfarm develiopers…obviously the area will now loose some more visitors…Maybe they would like to come to Tiree…the Manse is up for sale ?
Thanks.

Karl Hughes also commented

  • So we can take it that these turbines were very small in comparison with modern and proposed turbines eh ? Sound “A” sound, depends on Size and atmospheric conditions..size matters in this case WAMF.

    And a man who questions the were abouts of his feet ,obviously would have trouble noticing piles of dead birds…as to the bird kills/bee kills/bat kills…the industry recognises this impact…why can’t you ?

    Rgds
    Karl

  • Right on your first point Henri…well done.

    “I’m sure the monks could learn from the birds who have to live with all sorts of natural noises such as wind noise emitted from trees….” Note the word NATURAL…not so well done.

  • Please give me a link to an independent scientific report. Webcraft.
    It was thought for a long time that whales were unaffected by seismic survey vessels looking for oil and gas reserves…it came to pass after discredited studies initiated and paid for by the oil industry that some species of marine mammal can sense and infact recieve hearing damage from as much as 50miles away depending on the wave lengths…the fact is the jury is still out…
    Personnally and subjectively, I doubt there are effects after a couple of miles…however I would rather have objective data and give an objective answer.
  • many articles (in the main from the states) to do with bat mortality caused by wind turbines.
    In regards to the Argyll aka Tiree Array:at least this is something that Scottish Power Renewables will not have to deal with…in fact I do not think I have ever seen a bat on Tiree either.
  • Hi, Good to here from you…could you shine more light on the situation so that we can have an objective understanding of the situation.

    Namaste

    Karl

Recent comments by Karl Hughes

  • Challenge to Scottish Government: Change the everyday racist discrimination that asks how civilised is Scotland?
    “who I helped fight against the ‘Tiree Array’. Have a nice one” LOL… don’t even go there MK…unless you feel you want to take a fall from that self constructed ever wobbly pedestal.

    “Change the everyday racist discrimination that asks how civilised is Scotland?” no changing you malcolm..

    C U next time we pass Ardfern, we will pop in for a nice cuppa chia…Can’t involve myself in your rhetoric just now….. I have a plane to catch.,,fun things to do…
    toodle pip ‘

  • Challenge to Scottish Government: Change the everyday racist discrimination that asks how civilised is Scotland?
    http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/documents/gypsies_and_travellers.pdf

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-big-question-whats-the-extent-of-travellers-sites-and-do-they-need-tighter-controls-1703156.html

    Two balanced articles here…recognising the problems and the solutions associated with nomadic people within the uk. Please also note the two distinctive ethnic groups…Roma & Irish Travellers

    Please also note the biggest issue is deeply ingrained social xenophobia and racism from local government, sucessive national government and the general population…

    FA also shows its own lack of knowledge of Roma culture and traditions, perfectly condensed in this sentence…”There are flush lavatories on the site – in the wash block, with residents forced to go outside in the night in all weathers.”

    Roma do not have inside toilets, and do not wash clothing inside the van…this is a historical hygiene tradition brought about by life on the road…

    Anyways…having slept on the entire thread; I am still of the mind that unless folk learn the difference between all the groups that make up travelling folk, look at the different cultures…. and the deeply rooted historic xenophobia…then look at the simple solutions to obvious problems associated witn traveler illegal camps…the percieved poblems will persist…problems generated by society and placed on the travelers.

    Its a sad fact that these British Citizens have less resources available than your average asylum seeker, or lifer in a uk prison…Its even sadder that we still have individuals who seem hell bent on burning witches in the 21st century… they can be found on this thread and typify the ignorance of the extreme few.

    Leave you to it.

  • Challenge to Scottish Government: Change the everyday racist discrimination that asks how civilised is Scotland?
    Fair enough…I have a bee in my bonnet over the whole issue…roma/romanichal are thrown into the pot with other travellers….there should be recognition of all the different groups. Ultimately they have all been pushed out to the fringes of society…the problems, and they do exist…have been caused by ignoring all the needs of a nomadic people in a fixed society….for centuries…biggest changes happened with mechanisation of farming practices…enclosure act, etc…etc..etc..the xenophobic attitude towards these folk is beyond comparison in the uk…
  • Challenge to Scottish Government: Change the everyday racist discrimination that asks how civilised is Scotland?
    LOL… warranted ?… ouch ! anyhow maybe you have sent lowry hamewart, Tae think again. :)
  • Challenge to Scottish Government: Change the everyday racist discrimination that asks how civilised is Scotland?
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didicoy

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41 Responses to Interesting conclusion section: especially point 4., no smoke …

  1. It would be interesting to know what the measurement unit is for “ability to concentrate in meditation” such that a reduction of “70%” could be quoted!

    No question that more in the way of genuinely independent research is needed on the production and effects of noise from wind turbines and indeed other industrial processes.

    Unfortunately much of the ‘research’ that does appear turns out to be quietly and opaquely funded by lobby groups.

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  2. I am in agreement with Tim that the information so far presented on low frequency sound is very subjective. Further reasearch should be carried out by an independant body.

    In regards to:

    “The move has a defensible pragmatism – but it comes oddly from a spiritual group to be prepared to save their own operation while bequeathing a potentially enhanced problem to their erstwhile neighbours”…It would be interesting to know the neigbours feeling (if there are any ?) could this be a case of “cause and effect”…

    One would imagine that SP paid above the odds and that the group would now seek an upgraded location…

    I would like to add that having spent time in some amazing Buddhist communities and countries I am sceptical that the reason for moving was the proposed windfarm per se…one only has to go to Lhasa to see the amount of noise a lama/monk can manage to meditate through…it is also interesting to note that Om mani padmi hung is resonated in Tibetan monastries at as low a frequency as possible…some belive that a group of monks can curdle milk…I kid you not

    Interesting non the least but I would like to see solid objective data.

    I find the CO2 capture argument on: http://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/stop-pouring-taxpayers-cash-into-costly-wind-power-says-shell-boss-1-2375464 far more interesting.

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  3. Surely, if you’ve sought out a place to live for its rural tranquility – because peace and quiet is really important to you – and then you discover that a big power company plans to build a 71-turbine array next door you might cut your losses and look for somewhere windfarmproof? I don’t see double standards.

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  4. Infrasound is also generated by industrial machinery, by compressors, by rail traffic and tunnels and by washing machines.

    DEFRA has now published proposed limits for infrasound and low frequency noise, ranging from 92db at 10Hz down to 34db at 160Hz. They appear to prefer to use these units of measurement rather than the ‘ability to meditate’ scale!

    I have to say I can’t see why anyone should criticise the Buddhists for selling up. It’s an odd article.

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    • Hi Webcraft…
      Hope your well…I visited Samyling Eskdalemuir…nice place, not my thing but a really nice place all the same.(great cake shop)
      yes bit of an odd “karmic cycle: cause and effect” going on…YES…lets judge the article and not the monks.

      I am sure too that their reason for moving is not simply based on the possibility of a windfarm…anyhow how would they be able to test this…did they visit Whitelea and sit a while ? confused…

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      • I am aware of the research concerned, and yes, they did spend time trying to meditate on other windfarms, most of them smaller than the one that is being constructed in the forest of Ae. I agree, that after attempting to stop this wind farm from being built, they are left with no other option than to pack up and go. It is very unfortunate, that there is no place in Scotland in the present time, that is ‘safe’ from having wind turbines built. Mr Salmond is hell bent on progressing with this programme. (I wonder how much he personally stands to gain from this, not just in pounds and pence, but in his political and personal life)

        There are many articles concerning peoples experiences on a personal level with living near a wind farm, and these are not favourable. Most became depressed and stressed out, and also lost their property value, because no one wanted to live in the vicinity of wind turbines. I don@t blame them. These are not even economically viable, particularly when compared with other renewables such as solar. I do believe that Tharpaland had their own solar panels.

        More than money was lost when Tharpaland moved on. It was a holy and sacred place of retreat, where many hundreds of people completed silent retreats. Wind turbines are not conducive to silence and inner peace due to the back ground noise and vibration from turbines, as well as the disturbing movements of the sails and the shadows they cast. I do believe some research has shown, that despite the reduced noise levels of modern turbines to that of a ‘domestic refrigerator’, having tried to meditate in my kitchen, it is precisely this noise as well as the on/off cycles of the motor of my fridge that causes me a startle when in deep concentration.

        One has to understand the principles and effects of concentration, and how deep levels are acheived. Wind turbines are definitely a serious hinderance to developing concentration, as they function as a major distraction. Furthermore, the visual impact on an otherwise ‘natural’ landscape of wind turbines with their ‘busy’ blades swishing through the air, the constant motion from the blades and from the shadows they cast are extremely disturbing, and under normal circumstances known to induce seizure activity.

        If every house in Scotland had their roofs covered in solar panels (despite the reduced levels of sun in the northern hemisphere) we would be able to produce a larger percentage of power than wind turbines currently do, without major disturbing noise and visual impacts to communities.

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  5. I’m intrigued by the study. How would you provide a control group for such an experiment? As the monks would presumably know when they were in proximity to the turbines, how do you control for placebo effects? As Tim says, how do you measure prayer effectiveness?

    It would be possible to measure cognitive function by a variety of means and I don’t have any problem with monks being more affected while praying as this tends to blot out extraneous signals (such as vision) making it easier for signals that would otherwise be difficult to ascertain above the general “noise” to be detected. Similar things happen when you are going to sleep. Once the lights are off and everything else is quiet, small noises that wouldn’t normally register (such as a dripping tap) can become deafening.

    The effects of infrasound have been recently reviewed by the HPA:

    http://www.hpa.org.uk/webc/HPAwebFile/HPAweb_C/1265028759369

    In summary, there is little in the way of well controlled experimental evidence available on the effects of infrasound. Although effects can be seen at (usually) very high levels of infrasound, there is a suspicion that all of these effects are actually induced by low frequency, but audible noise. Even at high levels of infrasound, little or no effects were observed in the absence of audible frequencies.

    As SR says, infrasound is derived from a large number of natural and man made sources. Studies of workers exposed to high levels of occupational infrasound (such as HGV drivers) have found little to be concerned about and even astronauts (who are exposed to extremely high levels of infrasound don’t seem to be particularly affected.

    Living on an exposed coast or jogging is likely to expose individuals to much higher levels of infrasound than they would experience living near a wind farm.

    An absence of observed effect does, of course, not mean that there is no effect and so we have to be cautious about dismissing concerns out of hand. However, the available evidence suggests that medical effects of infrasound from wind farms is unlikely to be significant. Wind turbines should be sited sufficiently away from dwelling places to avoid any possible effect and in essence, if you cannot hear a turbine then it is unlikely to be having any effect on you.

    Given the use of prayer wheels by Buddhists, I would have thought that, with a bit of mental effort, they might manage to use wind turbines to enhance their contemplations!

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    • ” would have thought that, with a bit of mental effort, they might manage to use wind turbines to enhance their contemplations!” or get exceedingly giddy ?

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    • An absence of observed effect does, of course, not mean that there is no effect and so we have to be cautious about dismissing concerns out of hand. However, the available evidence suggests that medical effects of infrasound from wind farms is unlikely to be significant. Wind turbines should be sited sufficiently away from dwelling places to avoid any possible effect and in essence, if you cannot hear a turbine then it is unlikely to be having any effect on you.

      Regarding the absence of an observed effect, what I’ve heard is that the harm from the subsonic energy waves produced by the wind turbines -note: subsonic- are harmful to our subtle energy body, the channels,winds and drops, causing severe imbalances and other ill effects. Probably most scientists are not even aware of the existence of such a ‘body’ as it is extremely subtle, the nature of light. Apparently, the energy waves causing this harm are below the sound threshold for humans, so you don’t need to hear it to be affected by it.
      This may be an avenue for some open-minded researchers to explore. Meditators from a number of Buddhist traditions (and maybe others) have been meditating on this for centuries with enlightening results, realizations as to the very nature of reality.

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  6. The Buddhist group being discussed is not Tibetan and is based solely here in the west. It is not recognised by Tibetans and stands in opposition to His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Nearly all its adherents are western, with far less experience than the Lamas who can meditate in a thunderstorm!

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    • Hi, Good to here from you…could you shine more light on the situation so that we can have an objective understanding of the situation.

      Namaste

      Karl

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    • Geshe Kelsang Gyatso is surely a Tibetan. He is a realized, recognized and revered master not just by western people, but by many Tibetans as well. He has devoted his life to ensuring the survival and thriving of the, dharma not just in the ‘west’ but around the world. He has written many books on Buddhism from basic introductions to very detailed commmetaries on how to practice mahamudra, and the sublime mysteries of Tantra. Many Tibetan monks and lamas study and use his books because what he writes is authentic. Everything he does is for the benefit of others. His life is an example of that.
      His disagreement with the Dalai Lama is one of religious freedom, which the Dalai Lama has instigated by his banning of a certain practice for obscure reasons. This has caused much harm to individuals and a divide in the Tibetan community. However, many Tibetans, lay, ordained, and well-respected teachers have continued with this sacred practice over the years, many in secret.
      There were demonstrations against the Dalai Lama’s policy a few years ago and many Tibetans took part, ordained and lay, with great courage, to stand up for their right to practice as their own conscience and wisdom dictates. This was standing up for religious freedom.
      It’s true that there are some Lamas who can meditate in a thunderstorm, a fine achievement there is no doubt. Tibet has over 1500 years of Buddhist practice under it’s belt. It’s still early days in the west and we may not have 1500 years for a future the way the world seems to be degenerating in so many ways, so quickly. However, I can say truthfully that there are a growing number of ‘western’ practitioners who have become, and are becoming, realized beings, through putting dharma into practice under the care and guidance of Geshe-la and other teachers.
      Meditating in a thunderstorm may make seem quite dramatic but is essentially meaningless if the Lama has not overcome his true adversary of self-cherishing.

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  7. I can’t understand the accusation of hypocrisy. Whether it is the noise generated by the machinery or the brutal defacing of the beauty of their surroundings that has led them to their decision to move is, I suppose, academic. Obviously, they don’t want to live next door to an industrial site, and who can blame them?

    Their decision to sell their property to Scottish power was most likely driven by necessity, rather than preference. Who else would want to buy it in an area being obliterated by the 21st century version of the Victorian factory chimney?

    Good luck to them, I hope they find some corner of our country which escapes this uglification. Because, If they do, we may all need to pay them a visit from time to time to repair our souls.

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  8. You will save a lot of time if you just google ‘Wind Farm Noise’

    Will you? Most of what you will find is anecdotal and hearsay ‘evidence’ posted by CATS and similar turbophobic groups that is not backed by any hard facts, research or theory.

    Don’t believe everything you read on the internet!

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  9. You two/three are so biased – I hadn’t seen this Telegraph article nor did I recommend you to google search the subject with any great result in mind – just new there was a lot out there which you could research and save yourselves paragraphs of hot air on this Forum.

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      • Just read through it. It’s very good and covers all of the areas of concern. I suspect you are right in that Malcolm won’t like it as it very effectively shoots his favourite foxes (subsidies and efficiency) but it is, as you say, evidenced based with the data sources being clearly cited.

        It is pretty even-handed and acknowledges problems where these do exist. In the context of the current thread it is very frank on noise problems. As I suggested above, it concludes that infrasound isn’t a problem with turbines but that audible sound is. Interestingly, there is evidence that auditory nuisance is reduced if the listener is in receipt of benefits from the wind turbine(s) and it goes on to suggest that our approach in the UK is wrong. Germany and Denmark have much better community engagement in wind farm development and thus fewer problems.

        Another interesting cause for concern that I hadn’t been aware of is impact on bats. Birds are much more frequently cited as of concern but the report concludes that wind turbines are well down on the list of things that kill birds (buildings are the worst and particularly windows). Bats, however, seem to be suffering much higher mortality rates around turbines than would be anticipated given that they are such expert flyers and should be able to detect the turbine blades and avoid them easily. The best thinking seems to be that it is migratory bats that are most at risk (as these fly higher and possibly don’t use sonar when doing so) and that bats are much more at risk from barotrauma than birds.

        So, well worth a read by everybody and the cited literature is very useful.

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  10. After reading all your comments on this aricle, all I can say is that mankind appears to be in real trouble. I’m sure the monks could learn from the birds who have to live with all sorts of natural noises such as wind noise emitted from trees.

    This is B.S. supremo.

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    • Right on your first point Henri…well done.

      “I’m sure the monks could learn from the birds who have to live with all sorts of natural noises such as wind noise emitted from trees….” Note the word NATURAL…not so well done.

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  11. In answer to those people who wondered how the Buddhists had measured the loss of concentration near wind turbines you can find the report of their research at the bottom of this webpage:
    http://fifewindfarms.org.uk/no-place-is-sacred-to-a-wind-developer/
    It’s called “Effects of a Wind Farm” and describes how they visited three operational Scottish Power wind farms to conduct the research.
    Like others, I see no double standards in their decision to move the centre away from a location which would make their essential purpose impossible once the wind farm is built.
    There are many reports from people around the world, who live in proximity to wind turbines, of adverse effects on their health and wellbeing. The situation today with wind turbines seems to me to be similar to the tobacco companies’ denials in the mid-twentieth century that smoking caused cancer – yet no-one now doubts that it is a very significant contributory factor.

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    • How very disingenuous to compare ‘wind turbine syndrome’ with lung cancer.

      When the tobacco companies were denying the connection between smoking and cancer the evidence that blew their denial apart did not come from members of the public who reported that they were unwell after smoking. It was the scientific evidence that said that the evidence for a causal connection was overwhelming.

      In contrast, the reports of ‘wind turbine syndrome’ are all anecdotal, and although many independent scientific studies have been done no physical mechanism has been discovered and no causal connection has been established.

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      • Please give me a link to an independent scientific report. Webcraft.
        It was thought for a long time that whales were unaffected by seismic survey vessels looking for oil and gas reserves…it came to pass after discredited studies initiated and paid for by the oil industry that some species of marine mammal can sense and infact recieve hearing damage from as much as 50miles away depending on the wave lengths…the fact is the jury is still out…
        Personnally and subjectively, I doubt there are effects after a couple of miles…however I would rather have objective data and give an objective answer.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          • Interesting conclusion section: especially point 4., no smoke without fire eh ?
            The opening of the report does quote annoyance caused by noise, audible (though not infrasound)… one would hope that safe offsets are applied…but as to: any form of health risk been caused by infrasound this report says in a nutshell “no”
            How close is this wind farm to the retreat…after all this is what the place is a retreat:http://nkt-irc-tharpaland.org/
            it says it’s in a forest surely if it’s blowing the ambient noise of the trees would cancel out any noise generated by the turbines…much as the sea cancels out the noise of Tilley…
            This surely cannot be the only reason the folks are leaving ! more likely I summise that they realise that paying pupils will not like what they see when they arrive at the centre… a windfarm/and not a remote house set amongst forests and hills…the vibe is gone…the peace is destroyed…the poor old borders is suffering hard at the hand of the windfarm develiopers…obviously the area will now loose some more visitors…Maybe they would like to come to Tiree…the Manse is up for sale ?
            Thanks.

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          • There is a huge controversy in Ontario now about windfarms. The government has been pushing a policy of greater development and reliance of wind power -and other renewable sources to be sure- but they have been less than forthcoming about it’s drawbacks and ill effects.

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  12. Fascinating the processor will be the very same, must
    be to conserve battery life. But there’s no way Apple is going to release an iPad that does not blow folks away, so I’ve no issues about speed.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  13. My suspicion is that the infrasound paranoia has more in common with the worries about mobile phone radiation and magnetic fields from electricity pylons than it does tobacco. I’ve lived near wind turbines in the past (a mile or so distant at most) and they were totally inaudible until you stand within 100m or so. They had been in the area 15 years when I moved in and nobody batted an eyelid, nevermind an ear. Certainly modern turbines are larger, (these were 0.4MW I think), but other than an increased range at which they can be heard, I don’t see why there should be any substantial change in effect. Incidentally, when walking around the base of the turbines I entirely failed to see large piles of dead birds or bats.

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    • So we can take it that these turbines were very small in comparison with modern and proposed turbines eh ? Sound “A” sound, depends on Size and atmospheric conditions..size matters in this case WAMF.

      And a man who questions the were abouts of his feet ,obviously would have trouble noticing piles of dead birds…as to the bird kills/bee kills/bat kills…the industry recognises this impact…why can’t you ?

      Rgds
      Karl

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  14. The aim of the Buddhist Centre we are talking about is to try and provide the best conditions possible for strict solitary retreat for future generations to come..many great practitoners in the past would go up into the mountains away from their villages where it was quiet to do extensive retreat for the same reasons. Practically we cant do anything about thunderstorms but we can choose not to be near a windfarm for the benefit of our retreat. Our progress will be more swift if we have the conditions available suggested by Buddha.
    Sonam wangmo your comments are a bit racist as we do not need to be tibetan to become accomplished meditators..buddhadharma belongs to all livings beings and attainments depend upon the accumulation of merit, purifying negativity and applying great effort …being western or tibetan has nothing to do with it. Buddha Shakyamuni was not a tibetan either.

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  15. The detailed study published by Tharpaland would have been more objective if the subjects were blindfolded hence unaware of how close to the wind farm they were. It is likely that meditators at their meditation centre would not have views of the planned wind turbines hence visual awareness of proximity to the turbines should have been excluded from the study. The experiment was performed by walking up a track towards a wind farm while viewing it hence ‘I am getting closer to this wind farm’ was the inevitable first thought process.

    The fact that several of the subjects had never been to a wind farm, or possibly never seen a wind farm before, makes the results less valid as their respone would improve with increasing familiarity. A commenter on the forargyll.com web discussion on this topic noted that “one only has to go to Lhasa to see the amount of noise a lama/monk can manage to meditate through”; this could refer to environmental noise coming from outside the monasteries to which the meditators have become accustomed over time.

    Should Tharpaland become neighbouring to an operating wind farm in reality, the wind turbines would become a familiar part of the environment and the adverse reaction to an unfamiliar circumstance would decline. This effect has been demonstrated by multiple polls of residents living adjacent to wind farms, polled before and after the construction of a wind farm, which demonstrate that levels of concern decline after the wind farm has bee built and operated for some time, while the rates of acceptance and positivity towards the wind farm increase over time among neighbours.
    It is likely that all the subjects were aware of a high degree of concern Tharpaland where it was pre-assumed that the proposed wind farm would have a detrimental effect on their clients and residents. They would not have conducted such a study unless there was this concern among their community. Therefore the subjects cannot have been impartial as they would have been aware that their reports of their experiences would be used in evidence to the planning authority aiming to prevent the wind farm being built or to influence the developer or council to redesign the wind farm so that the turbines would be further away from their site.

    If one were to take a study group from the membership of a pro-renewables organisation such as a renewable energy company and perform a similar experiment, one would likely find that the subjects mood improves the closer they get to the wind farm and their ability to maintain concentration is unaffected, and they would experience no loss in wellbeing. I have personally visited many wind farms in my leisure time, often with friends or family members, and have always enjoyed the experience, and experienced none of the negative symptoms described in the Tharpaland study.

    A particular group which spend more time at wind farms that the Tharpaland study group did and do not display any negative symptoms are the many professionals who design, construct, monitor and maintain wind farms. I have worked on wind farm sites under construction with many of the wind turbines operating immediately overhead for days, weeks and months, and again the experience has been wholey positive and my concentration has been unaffected. The Tharpaland study implies that all people could be adversely affected in the same way as their subjects, for example suggesting that a common universal response might include bursting into tears when close to a wind farm. This is not true. How else could professional technicians perform the highly concentrated task of assembling a wind turbine adjacent to other operating wind turbines, other than being successfully able to maintain a high degree of concentration for an extended period of time immediately adjacent to wind turbines?

    Some of the graphs in the Tharpaland study show the effect occurring significantly only as close as 1.5km-2km to the wind farm, which is probably the distance that audible noise occurs to the careful listener. Again, if this is the first time a person has ever heard a wind farm it is likely that the lack of familiarity with the sound which causes the impact. If this same experiment was conducted against motorway construction, subjects approaching a motorway who had never heard or seen a motorway before would have similar responses and if their objections were carried, no motorways, which are far greater emitters of noise and low frequency noise than wind farms, could ever been built.

    Those who “cherish the natural environment and all who live in it, and are committed to the development of clean and sustainable forms of energy” have a duty to welcome the clean energy systems of today as a new and essential feature of our environment. Having created so many man made structures and landscapes throughout our environment during industrial history, many of which directly pollute our environment to the detriment of all beings, we must now accept new cleaner technologies into our environment which do not pollute and cause a reduction of pollution elsewhere.

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      • Robert, it is fair to place reasonable conditions on the siting of wind farms including preservation of the health and safety of local residents. This already the case.

        I am not convinced that the effects recorded in the Tharpaland study are representative of the experience of the majority of people.

        As wind energy is increasingly deployed to the benefit of our energy supply, carbon reduction goals, employment and local incomes, more and more groups and communities will need to become accustomed to wind farms and to living near wind farms. Many immediate neighbours of wind farms report no ill effects from living within a few kilometers of operating wind farms.

        I do think the Tharpaland study was carefully produced and it merits a further study. Ideally this would be in the from of a study performed by a medical association, would have input from doctors and psychologists and have subjects selected from the public at random and undertaking tests for concentration and other health indicators. It should include the scenario where the subjects are not aware of how near or far from the wind farm they are. It would need to be funded by government to make it as impartial as possible.

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