Comment posted Council misuse of public money by newsroom.
You mistake the core point.
The budgets from which such arrangements are financed are not given for such purposes but to support job cutting.
No private sector business would countenance such misdirection of funds any more than should a public sector one.
We do not understand why Audit Scotland does not concern itself with this quite indefensible practice.
And custom does not increase defensibility.
newsroom also commented
- The basic premise in job cutting is that you let people go whose responsibilities you can either cover from existing resources or dispense with.
In the hypothesis you advance, where there are staff whose expertise you need, there is no defence for letting them take early retirement. - As we’ve said elsewhere, custom does not make this practice defensible.
- We understand that this applies only to permanent staff, not to councillors.
Councillors have early retirement decisions taken for them by the electorate; and any return has to be earned, four years later.
Recent comments by newsroom
- Radically new council group changes all the dynamics: party politics dead in Argyll
The fact is that the SNP councillors in the Argyll and Bute for Change group are not ‘SNP councilors’ in council group terms – as rules forbid membership of more than one group.
So the ‘Russell camp’ is definitely no longer in the council’s SNP group, although presumably they will personally vote in elections according to their preferences.
And IF the other 8 SNP members have actually joined [as opposed to supporting [the Argyll, Lomond and the Isles group, there is no formal SNP group at all in Argyll and Bute Council.
If this has become the situation, it means that the SNP as a party has no right of purview over the behaviour of ANY of its originally elected councillors, none of whom would now be SNP councillors.
You have to say this is fun. It's not politics but it is a laugh. - Argyll and Bute Council: Councillor McCuish leads again
As given in one of the recent updates above - the missing person is Councillor Strong - from the, as of this morning, Argyll and Bute for Change Group. This would leave that group with 18 members but only 17 present to vote - which would not be enough to carry them to administration IF all other 18 councillors voted together.
This has to be likely but in the current situation the finessing is so arcane that one cannot be certain of anything until it's done. - Argyll and Bute Council: Councillor McCuish leads again
The fact is that they were quite prepared to work with the Liberal Democrat and Conservative groups - but were ordered by the the SNP to face expulsion from the party or to leave the administration that was planning just such a coalition.
We do not yet know what the SNP party position is today - although in our 14.15 update above, we have laid out the range of possibilities - but we do know that the 8 SNP Councillors have not resigned from the party. - Argyll and Bute Council: Councillor McCuish leads again
Sincere apologies for the temporary error - now corrected - and thank you for the prompt.
We are doing our level best - live - to get changing situations out to people as fast and as best as we can.
When we inevitably have the odd muddle [like cloning Mary Jean Devon], it is corrected very quickly. - Argyll and Bute Council: Councillor McCuish leads again
Apologies. We’re working flat out to keep the information coming. Anne Horn got submerged by a second Mary Jean Devon – correction now made.
It IS a confusing situation because the council has elected a leader with no obvious administration to lead.
That comes next.
With two 18-strong groups, the issue is how will a decision be made?
We think that the Provost has a casting vote – a situation which with the Provost and the Depute Provost now in the same camp, cannot be other then controversial.
We cannot afford to drop an entire day for an event of indeterminate length so we do not know whether Provost Councillor Isobel Strong is in the Chair; or whether she is still absent through serious illness.
If she is absent through illness, this would not have prevented her known wishes form being recorded as her membership of the group named in the council email at the top of this article.
However if she was absent, it would prevent her from voting.
But the impact of that vote would depend on who else is absent.
It has been pointed out to us that Councillor Semple has posted on his facebook page since the meeting began – raising a question we cannot answer: Is he absent – which would balance the Strong vote if she is absent; or is he posting from the chamber as matters wind their interminable way through to some conclusion or other.
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It is important because it is taxpayers money…..monies that are needed elsewhere.
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‘The names actually don’t matter’ – perhaps, but it would be interesting to know at what level these deals were signed off, whether councillors were involved, and – if so – whether they’re still councillors. Surely there is one very critical aspect of just who was involved, the possibility (hopefully remote) that there was an element of ‘cronyism’, of ‘jobs for the boys’. I wonder what checks and balances are in place to reassure us on that point?
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We understand that this applies only to permanent staff, not to councillors.
Councillors have early retirement decisions taken for them by the electorate; and any return has to be earned, four years later.
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Must agree 100% with Neil MacIntyre here. cronyism is still alive and kicking although to a slightly lesser and less transparent degree, as lack of response to full ‘freedom of in formation’ request testifies to.
We can all name several individuals appointed to positions (through being pals with connections to the interview panel) in the council over the years and subsequently made an a##e of the job to the embarasment of all and cost to the council tax payers. This must stop and i would think the new admin have this in their sights.
again, well done Neil for highlighting this, and to ‘forargyll’ for affording you the opportunity.
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Sorry but I don’t see a problem with this, A&B council is a statutory corporation a subsidiary company of the UK PLC just like the DVLA, VOSA, DWP or any other “Agency of government”
What makes me laugh is your “This is not a new scam nor is it illegal but it is highly improper – and indefensible is terms both of the responsible use of public money and of the subversion of the results specific budgets are allocated to achieve”
Perhaps if it was “Public Money” then it would be indefensible but its not. It is company income and as such the corporation is entitled to do as it wishes with the money.
Tell me FA do you still believe that paper disc on the window of cars is a Road Fund License paying for our roads or do you know the truth that it is now called Vehicle Excise Duty and the money goes into a general fund.
We all live within a corporate state and guess what you all pay to work for them! Just look at Graham Macqueen’s group BID4 with their setting up a limited Company For Oban, so just think for a minute You are not going to live in a town or local community, you are going to be an employee of the corporation, “ there is no opt out for local business”
Is it any wonder! Cllr McCuish supported this when the SNP is so in love with the Tyrannical agenda21 program.
Welcome to corporate Britain 2012
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Keith, it is ‘public money’ and Graham macqueen is an individual among many others prepared to roll up their sleeves and actually make things happen and take steps to ensure that is achieved.
I trust you Keith do the same, and if so well done.
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Phil
it is only “public money” as far as it is gifted to the treasury by the goodwill or ignorance of the people. When it reaches the treasury it is distributed to the statutory corporations and your banking master’s institutions to name one £55milion per day of your public money goes to the EU Corporation, Tell me Phil when did the people of Argyll sign up for the European union?
Yes Graham is an individual like the rest of mankind and perhaps he does as you say, but what has that to do with the our government operating as corporations (there is a name to the type of government we have now! When government takeover commerce, but it has slipped my mind lol)
As for me Phil well lets just say I am me and I do what I do
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You mistake the core point.
The budgets from which such arrangements are financed are not given for such purposes but to support job cutting.
No private sector business would countenance such misdirection of funds any more than should a public sector one.
We do not understand why Audit Scotland does not concern itself with this quite indefensible practice.
And custom does not increase defensibility.
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Very well put ‘newsroom’. Thats it in a nutshell Keith – a total waste of all our money.
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Newsroom: I did not mistake anything
Simple point is You Gift the government money (Tax) so why moan about how they spend it. Is it because you’re not getting your share LOL, the government create the rules and laws (Acts) guess what you freely give consent to follow them
Could I suggest you investigate “trust law” learn were you stand in our public trust. Then you will see that the actions you have moaned about are quite defensible and “Legal”
We live in a polimagician created illusion, were your God given birthrights have been stolen and replaced with Benefits and privileges granted by your master/employer/government/royalty
You do know that the government are correct the people are nothing but ignorant (as per legal definition) children or bad employees; you don’t grow up and take responsibility (full liability) you just moan when you don’t get your own way. You gave up all your Rights to the government for what? So they can keep you safe?, To look after you?
“We do not understand why Audit Scotland does not concern itself with this quite indefensible practice” are you for real Audit Scotland is part of the system, what do you not understand? did I not read somewhere that members of the Scottish Executive wanted an investigation into the actions at Rangers football company, Yet I have not seen them demand an independent investigation into the abuse of Hollie Gregg
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Guys, this has been happening for donkey’s years! Teachers have been retiring and rehiring way back into the days of Strathclyde. Getting their nice lump sum on retiring and in some cases coming straight back into the same job the next day as a supply teacher on an enhanced rate of pay.
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As we’ve said elsewhere, custom does not make this practice defensible.
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Supply teachers never did receive an ‘enhanced’ rate of pay – that was a myth. They appeared to be getting more per day because they did not get any holiday pay.
This was eventually changed and money was deducted then paid during the holidays. At this point supply teachers’ pay was exactly the same as those on a contract, and was dependent on where they were on the salary scale.
Now supply teachng is very poorly paid for experienced teachers, as since some time last year they are only paid at point 1 on the salary scale for the first five days. This equates to a little over £50 per day after deductions.
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£50 a day – my heart bleeds.
Something did have to change and thank goodness it did.
RE: Enhanced rates of pay. Permanent Teachers get a daily rate as Annual Salary divided by 365. Supply teachers get Annual Salary divided by 195 (the amount of school days in a year).
If a teacher is employed for the full school year, yes they earn the same. However, if they don’t, one teacher will be getting 365ths and another 195ths for doing the exact same job PLUS pension.
Meantime, newly qualified teachers struggle to get any supply work because they are not part of the “old pals” network AND yes I agree, the reduced rate for the first 5 days in these cases is not fair.
However, I believe the point of the article was about retired employees.
For newsroom, I wasn’t trying to justify this as acceptable behaviour, just as something that has been going on for ages. Accepted behaviour, only within the echelons of local government, not with me. I have sat on many occassions listening to newly qualified teachers in tears because they simply cannot find work.
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Have these staff come back on permanent contracts? Could there actually be some benefit in employing experienced ex-Council staff who know the system & people to undertake short term projects? The alternative is likely to be the employment of expensive consultants who would be paid huge expenses & invariably not be familar with the area or organisation. Depending on the invidual the foregoing could be a disadvantage though.
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The basic premise in job cutting is that you let people go whose responsibilities you can either cover from existing resources or dispense with.
In the hypothesis you advance, where there are staff whose expertise you need, there is no defence for letting them take early retirement.
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Thanks Newsroom for putting the story on.
My attention was brought to it by a gentleman in Oban whose conversation with a council officer who is about to receive his payment and then pick up another wee job which is ready and waiting for him at the council.I thought it was a wind- up but it seems not.An expert we can,t do without,certainly not this bloke but why hide the people and the posts if these are staff we can,t live without.Have the posts been advertised? or has Argyll and Bute enough talent within.
Education springs to mind but Sneddon and Walker are probably irreplacable but what could they come back as.
I had a blether to Roddy about the situation and he was slightly surprised that it was actually happening but he would certainly ask what was going on and why these mysterious jobs have suddenly appeared when nearly 300 people were made redundant last year.
Everyone will not be bothered but with the investigations into the roads dept. and Spygate surely this kind of underhand behaviour should be a thing of the past with the new administration.All I ask is that everything be open to public scrutiny, surely working for the council can,t be that bad that you would want to keep it a secret or would you?
Cheers Neil.
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Perhaps it might also be useful to ask for the actual v assumed cost savings.
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Newly qualified teachers should be selected for supply teaching before retired teachers who will have a nice pension. In my opinion retired teachers who do supply teaching are just downright gready.
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