Andy To be fair most parties are ‘guilty’ of …

Comment posted Dunoon Ward count and RESULT by Integrity? Not in the ConDemAll.

Andy

To be fair most parties are ‘guilty’ of that. The SNP have gone into an alliance with Labour in Edinburgh, with the Lib Dems and Labour in Highland Council, and Lib Dems in the Borders.

At local government level I have no real problem with varying coalitions as I see a difference between local and national politics. At local level it should be about whether the majority party trust those they go into coalition with and whether they feel they have the necessary skills and experience.

Recent comments by Integrity? Not in the ConDemAll

  • SNP Chairs and Members of Westminster Committees
    I don’t have a problem with someone of Mhairi Black’s age being elected. I don’t think it can do politics any harm whatsoever to have some elected members who can better represent the aspirations of a more youthful section of society. I would have concerns if there was an excessive number of younger of politicians say in their twenties but it is highly unlikely that will ever be the case.

    Would she have been elected if the SNP were not on such an upswing nationally? Probably not but you could say that about a lot of the other SNP MPs elected (and also of a lot of Labour ones in the past when Labour were the dominant party in Scotland).

    She was heavily criticised during the campaign for some of the remarks he made about drinking (was it alcopops?) but that never really bothered me. She was still a student and if there two things that tend to happen at university it is drinking and hangovers! I also think too much was made of her remarks about Celtic – it wasn’t sectarianism if I recall correctly – it was just a few choice words on twitter – what percentage of people in the world use that sort of language from time to time, especially in their youth!

    The head-butt remark was stupid and I doubt she will make that mistake again. It was borne out of frustration and naivety and she didn’t help herself by going on about No voters being selfish and gullible. However there are plenty of more experienced politicians who have mad similar remarks about No voters – not to mention posters on here who seem to think being a No voter makes you less Scottish, a very childish position to take.

    However I wouldn’t want to put young people off an interest in becoming a politician by their mistakes when they are in their late teens or early twenties being used as a club to beat them with.

    I do think her position on the Work & Pensions Select Committee is odd and maybe ill advised. I think, there are other committees where an inexperienced politician and person (and I mean that purely in terms of her age, not as a statement on her potential ability) might be better placed initially.

  • Motion sends Scottish Parliament’s condolences on death of Sir Nicholas Winton, the British Schindler
    It is quite amazing that he never made his actions public – they were only discovered by chance by his wife about 25 years ago. A remarkable man. Very fitting and just that he got to live a very long and full life.
  • SNP Chairs and Members of Westminster Committees
    There is a chuckle to be allowed at the fact that Jim Murphy was regularly criticised by SNP supporters for being a career politician who had no experience of working and now we have an SNP MP with no experience of working sitting on the ‘Work & Pensions Committee!

    No criticism of Mhairi Black intended and I hope she does a great job. Just highlighting yet another case of total hypocrisy amongst ardent political party supporters.

  • SNP alerts infantry to prepare to hunt out Carmichael
    I tend to agree with JB on this. Alastair Carmichael did wrong, of that there is no doubt. I personally think he should stand down (but there are a few other politicians in all parties who should have done the same in the past and haven’t). However I just don’t see how pushing for this court case is merited given the other much more important priorities in Scotland right now.

    The crowd fund is sitting at round about £60k just now (which was the target) – if this goes to full trial then that isn’t going to touch the sides of the total bill – it would surprise me greatly if the total bill (for both sides added together) ended up being south of £300k. Where that money is going to come from I am don’t know. The Lib Dems are refusing to comment on whether they are picking up Alastair Carmichael’s bill, who is going to be picking up the ‘people’s final bill if it does go to a full and length trial?

    Yes we want fair and honest politics and yes we are not getting it. We didn’t get it from Carmichael but we also don’t get it from Tories, Labour or the SNP (and you can add other parties to the list at will). There are liars and cheats in every party, some on ‘lesser’ issues, some on greater issues. Those pushing for this wearing their SNP badges, including the main petition leaders, are blinded by party loyalty and the stench of hypocrisy is quite foul. All parties need to clean their act up but the ‘outrage’ at this particular incident whilst whistling innocently with a ‘nothing to see here’ attitude to their own ‘houses’ is a bit pathetic.

  • Council cuts teacher numbers – without consultation – at Sandbank Gaelic Medium Unit
    Whether it is in ‘crisis’ is debatable and is possibly overly dramatic language however Angela Constance herself has admitted that standards in literacy and numeracy are falling and Nicola Sturgeon whilst denying the Scottish education system is failing has admitted it isn’t doing well enough.

    I think we can all acknowledge that politicians (of all parties) exaggerate their successes and downplay their failings so you can consider what Constance and Sturgeon are ‘admitting’ within that context.

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56 Responses to Andy To be fair most parties are ‘guilty’ of …

  1. Michael Breslin is a great addition to the new administration and just the right person for the education brief.

    That was the sober bit.

    Yaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    • If you actually know MB so well as you say, is it not a little premature to declare how he is “just the right person for the education brief”
      Any new councillor needs time to find his way and MB will be no different. If he does a good job, I will be the first to say.
      The Dunoon Primary School campus issue could be an early test for him.

      How sober you are when you make comments on FA is up to others to judge!

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  2. I am thrilled for Mike Breslin, he ran a super campaign and thoroughly deserves his seat at Kilmory. Its my birthday today (friday) and to see a new SNP councillor elected to the Argyll and Bute team gives me double cause for celebration.
    mike will prove to be a very able asset to Argyll and Bute, to his Dunoon ward and to the SNP,

    Well done!

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  3. Argyll and Bute Final result as on Application Forms to be a Councillor.
    Independents 15 SNP 13 Tory 4 Lib Dems 4
    Congratulations to all elected.

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  4. Fuller result ;

    First Preference votes as under

    Breslin (SNP) 663 Elected at 1st stage
    Green (Con) 94
    McQueen (Ind) 432 Elected at 5th stage
    Miles (LibDem)105
    Rice (Labour)296
    Walsh (Ind) 777 Elected at 1st stage

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  5. “We dropped the ball when we got our own parliament. We could have done things very differently but we just imported the old imperial model from Westminster and got shouting.”

    Watch the Welsh model (BBC Parliament channel) and Holyrood comes a poor second in this respect. There may well be lots of sweary-words employed but as I don’t speak Welsh….

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  6. Just looking at the votes, we see that the TORIES could only attract 94 votes and less that 4% of the total vote compared with 239 votes (7.27%) in 2007.

    The LIB DEMS only managed to scrape 105 votes and less than 4.5% of the total vote compared with 2007 when they managed 257 (7.82%) of the total vote.

    We see Jimmy McQueen going from 754 votes in 2007 to only 432 yesterday. Certainly passed his sell by date and should now think about standing down.

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    • The Conservative and Unionist candidate had to contend with Conservative and Unionist Councillor Donald Kelly instructing the electorate to vote for the SNP candidate . Time for Councillor Kelly to be put out the party .

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  7. Great result for Michael Breslin. Now the successful Councillors have to get down to business and bring Argyll and Bute Council into an open and transparent organisation fit for purpose.

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  8. Islay for ever

    Very few people in Dunoon have heard of Cllr Donald Kelly and I can assure you none of them heard him urging them to vote SNP.

    Keep the jokes coming

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        • Have you? Mike was a member of the Labour Party some time ago.
          Hopefully he will have retained the values he supported then and will become a successful councillor for the Dunoon ward.
          I would be very disappointed if Mike was to fall into the normal negative outlook of other snp contributors to this blog.

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          • Yes I’ve met him and he does retain good values. Why would he not? I have no doubt he’ll be a great councillor both for Dunoon and for Argyll & Bute.

            You need to think about why you feel the SNP contributions are negative because mostly I read them the other way round. I enjoy being a member of the SNP because it’s upbeat and hopeful, even when the going is hard. I imagine you feel the same about your party? The idea that the Labour party has a monopoly on being positive or having values is a tad misguided. At very least you should be able to see that we have some things in common.

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          • Have you considered that he may have left the Labour Party because of the values which he supported? A common complaint among many of those who moved from Labour to the SNP is that it was the Labour Party whose values changed as they became almost indistinguishable from the Tories. That trend continues and unholy alliances between them in Councils all over Scotland only proves the point.

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          • Andy

            To be fair most parties are ‘guilty’ of that. The SNP have gone into an alliance with Labour in Edinburgh, with the Lib Dems and Labour in Highland Council, and Lib Dems in the Borders.

            At local government level I have no real problem with varying coalitions as I see a difference between local and national politics. At local level it should be about whether the majority party trust those they go into coalition with and whether they feel they have the necessary skills and experience.

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  9. Gus,

    Read your own comment at the head of this item which calls into question both Cllr Breslin’s ability to perform his duties and Anne Baird’s sobriety.
    Would you think either suggestion was positive?

    I wish them both, along with all other Council members, all success as they grapple with the severe problems faced across Argyll & Bute.

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  10. I’m sure Mike has retained the values that has guided his political activity.
    There are very many members of the SNP – perhaps even a majority – who were Labour members or supporters.
    The actual question for them was how much of Labour’s leadership retains any of the values that built the Labour Party.
    These values appear largely to have been abandoned which allows Labour to join into coalitions with the Tories all over Scotland.
    Gus is obviously the last to know.

    Power at any cost appears to be Labour’s guiding value.

    Despite a slowing of the process due to a relentless campaign of smears on Alex Salmond in all the media this latest cynical behaviour assures that the process of Labour being replaced by the SNP in many parts of Scotland will relentlessly continue.

    Gus appears to imagine that anyone who doesn’t agree with him deserves personal offence.

    No political benefit accrues from that

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  11. You don’t half talk some keech Dave – oh ye of the gratutitous insult.

    So, how come the nats never selected you as a candidate?

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    • But Simon the nats have previously selected Dave as a candidate…honestly they have! I know it’s hard to believe.

      I’m sure now you have brought up the subject he will be only too pleased to let you know the results.

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  12. Ken
    You are, as usual being very selective with your comments.

    I said above “if he does a good job,I will be the first to say”
    Are you saying the Dunoon Primary issue will not be an early test?

    Anne mentioned the word sober first,my comment was certainly not negative, if you read again I said it was for others to judge.

    I said of Mike “Hopefully he will have retained the values he supported then and will become a successful councillor for the Dunoon ward.

    Very positive comment don’t you think?

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  13. Anne Gus? Is this the same person rejected by the electorate in Kintyre? The ‘I will not answer difficult questions’ Anne?

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  14. “Simon”: rage against the dying light all you want to but fact is that we won, you didn’t. It’s a new dawn it’s a new day .. and hopefully everything is going to be all right (certainly can’t be worse than the previous “Simon” backed shower).

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  15. Oh I know you won “doc” I saw the on-line lynch mob on here shortly afterwards demanding revenge and demanding heads.

    A new dawn? A new day? Pardon me erst I vomit…

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  16. For Anne Baird,

    My comments concerning Mike Breslin were not negative, I merely pointed out that I would be disappointed if he was to fall into the normal negative outlook of other snp contributors eg. K.M. and D.H.

    Yes I am upbeat and hopeful about my party.
    I have never said we have a monopoly on being positive or having values, and I can assure you we are not misguided.

    Yes we have some things in common, just as we have our differences.I personally had some interesting conversations with snp members I met during the election campaign.

    The coalition in Edinburgh is a good example of how parties can work together.

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  17. I’ll just repost the main part of my last post. Perhaps then instead of silly bluster the substantive points it makes can be addressed….like “Labour values”

    As Gus himself has indicated many people operating politically in Scotland USED TO BE MEMBERS OF THE LABOUR PARTY.

    “There are very many members of the SNP – perhaps even a majority – who were Labour members or supporters.
    The actual question for them was how much of Labour’s leadership retains any of the values that built the Labour Party.
    These values appear largely to have been abandoned which allows Labour to join into coalitions with the Tories all over Scotland.
    Power at any cost appears to be Labour’s guiding value.

    Despite a slowing of the process due to a relentless campaign of smears on Alex Salmond in all the media this latest cynical behaviour assures that the process of Labour being replaced by the SNP in many parts of Scotland will relentlessly continue.”

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  18. Hmmmm, this got me wondering…

    whatever happened to Kintyre1?

    Re: Lynch Mob

    I think I already said this, but I have been demanding “heads” for a year and a half now – hardly since the election results.

    You all seem to be getting hung up on who’s played for which team here…

    Can I suggest that politics are an evolving entity? As values of people and parties change and adapt to circumstances, it is possible that candidates no longer find they can support the parties they used to.

    Its an organic thing and perhaps here in Argyll, we are seeing the next phase of politics already, where we have people who support their party at a national level, but don’t at a local level.

    Some will do so for survival reasons, but some will also do so as genuine honest people wanting only the best for the people they represent and feel they can do so better as an independent or even under the umbrella of another organisation.

    Whoa, that was deep for Sunday morning coming from me :)

    Discuss please

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  19. Gus “But Simon the nats have previously selected Dave as a candidate” – can hardly believe that!!

    Surely a man of his stature and ability must have been elected?

    Him and Anne whatshernamethingy as well, down yon way in Kintyre?????

    Shoe-ins both of them…. :)

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  20. Simon – Have you noticed DH is reluctant to tell you about his time as a candidate in the council elections ?

    He seems to be trying to change the subject to something he has no evidence for!

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  21. Now I DID notice that Gus.

    It seems pretty obvious that if he was ever selected then Dave McEwan Hill got trounced/disowned/banned/deselected or whatever.

    My guess though Gus is that whatewver the reason – like our Amatuer Anne – he won’t answer a straight question either. ;)

    Have a nice night people ;)

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  22. As a matter of interst I have contested for the SNP at town council, regional council, district council and parliamentary election on 7 occasions. I gave all that up ten years ago when I turned 60 and in fact stood in Dunoon Ward around then as paper candidate (ie name on ballot, no campaign) merely to ensure that there was an SNP candidate in each ward.
    Virtually all of my contests were decades ago when only the brave stood for the SNP and I am very proud to have played my part in carrying the SNP and the independence message from a position in the 60s when it was attracting less than 1% of the vote to a position as the biggest political organisation in Scotland. I have respect for all political activists of all parties who stand for election but none at all for those who provide puerile jibes without putting themselves to the judgement of the voters

    I missed a seat on Hamilton Town Council in 1968 on a recount. That was the year the Labour Party had asked me to stand for them but in those days the SNP and Labour got on well and respected each other.
    But that was before London sold the movement out. There are still good people in the Labour party and my sympathy is with them. As I watch the Tories, whose vote dropped again, being brought back into power in coalitions with Labour in many parts of Scotland I wonder what these good people are thinking. This is a gift to the SNP.
    I will ask (as many good Labour people are now asking) when did Labour (which was a home rule party till 1954) become the Labour and Unionist Party?
    No doubt we shall get a selection of infantile comments to this post

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  23. Told you Simon! He’s a veteran of council elections. Though I’m not sure confessions of Hamilton TC are of relevance to standing in Argyll and Bute.
    “That was the year the Labour Party asked me to stand for them” ,evidence??????
    He still has not provided answers to the question of his attempts to be elected in Argyll and Bute(other than to say he was a paper candidate in ward 7)
    The rest of his post is as usual what he would call positive, and I would call mince!

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  24. Is it just my imagination or have the anti-SNP platoon on here become distinctly nastier in tone and in the nature of their personal attacks since the elections?

    Sore losers I guess.

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    • Gus, actually the “nats” have shown a great deal of forebearance over the years. I’ve been heckled, harrassed, lied about and even physically assaulted by members of the Labour party, but I prefer to think of those as the bad old days.

      In an Argyll & Bute context I’ve met Labour members who will lay down the axe and work with others for the common good. Similarly I will do all I can to support them for the same reason. Since the only fundamental difference is the independence issue, on an issue by issue basis there’s a great deal to agree on. Our positive attitude has meant that many Labour members, and voters, have felt able to come on board. In the bad old days that wouldn’t have happened. Times and priorities have changed.

      Please think hard about who the enemy actually is and ask yourself what will be the best we can all do at a time when the poorest and most vulnerable in society are bearing the brunt of the consequences of silly bankers playing games with our economy.

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  25. The labs that contribute to this site should take heart from the good socialist members of their chosen party.
    Lord Mcconnell, Lord Reid, Lord Watson, Lord Foulkes, Lord Gordon, Lord Hughes, Baroness Liddel, Lord Maxton, Lord McAvoy, Lord O’Neill, Lord Mcfaul, Lord Robertson and even the “I will never bow to any capitalist” Lord Prescott.
    Anything to find a way to bring in money without any real effort, nothing new. They profess to represent ordinary people but forget their origins when the opportunity presents itself.
    No wonder real working people are leaving the Labs in droves

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  26. Selection of infantile posts initially as expected after my last post and then some sensible,thoughful stuff from people with a serious interest in the main issues.

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  27. As usual personal attacks are the norm for those who have no substance to argue. Labour have no ideas, no care or concern for the disadvantaged, no plan to advance forward, and don’t forget who got us into the financial situation in the first place. Gordon I am the greatest Brown. Spent all the money ran up the national debt, put nothing away in reserve. Tried to claim all the credit for the boom, then when the bust came which he said was a thing of the past, it was everybody’s fault except his. Why did Labour fail to put controls on the banks when they had the chance. last but not least don’t forget who gave Fred Goodwin his knighthood, it was not the Easter Bunny.

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