Comment posted Commons Culture Committee loses all perspective in Murdoch declaration by Hamish Beaton.
So Newsroom
Are all our politicians a parcel of rogues with no moral compass or just some of them? If you blame all of them, then your premise could be that the masses should rise up as one and remove them. Or, on the other hand, just some in the Executive are evil and corrupt and we let the due process of law deal with them. Is this your argument or have I missed the facts that would support your position?
Recent comments by Hamish Beaton
- Refloated cargo ship MV Fri Ocean escorted to Lynn of Lorne – and on into Oban
For those not in the know the working hours are as follows:
The limits on hours of work or rest shall be as follows:
(a) maximum hours of work shall not exceed:
(i) 14 hours in any 24-hour period; and
(ii) 72 hours in any 7-day period;
or
(b) minimum hours of rest shall not be less than:
(i) 10 hours in any 24-hour period; and
(ii) 77 hours in any 7-day period.
Hours of rest may be divided into no more than two periods one of which must be at least 6 hours in length.
There is a notice posted of the hours expected to be worked on board and each crew member keeps an official log of actual hours of work/rest.
This looks fabulous on paper. So far so good – but, of course, things get out of step and coasting, standbys and ports and all the broken hours and extra work interferes with the daily routine of life and very soon the sheet needs “tidying up” which also needs every sheet to agree – the rest as they say becomes just lies and statistics. Fatigue is constantly flagged up as an element in official reporting, indeed compared to previous decades the number of times it is sighted as a contributory factor in accidents, collisions and strandings is increasing. The shipping press is full of articles about fatigue, to reduce it will need a change of crewing regulations, which will increase industry costs so yet again the International Maritime Organisation will try to introduce a regulation that will take a decade(s) to ratify, whilst owners and Governments lobby for amendments and postponements. Don’t expect any backing from Westminster they’re all for “light touch” law and management. The way to change it is to lobby your MP as a NIMBY – Fatigue and marine casualties – not in my back yard - Refloated cargo ship MV Fri Ocean escorted to Lynn of Lorne – and on into Oban
Hi Robert. Previous investigations have revealed the labyrinth of deceit surrounding OOW certification. Safety audits regularly turn-up Turkish Certificates gained “on-line” then re-validated through places such as The Republic of Panama. As was the case of the Coastal Isle’s grounding off Bute, where several certificates were judged to be fraudulently obtained. This is the murky world of third world certification and the crews that man shipping around our coasts. Ships may be well founded but Crewing Agencies and Company’s have to be more vigilant as to who they supply and employ. There is to be yet another re-validation of all certificates to try and stamp out this fraud – the cost to the individual is frightening, and may well convince many well qualified British certified officers that it’s just not worth the candle and best find a berth ashore. - Refloated cargo ship MV Fri Ocean escorted to Lynn of Lorne – and on into Oban
Marine Accident Investigation Branch MAIB have now posted this casualty as a “current investigation”. It is always difficult to assess when an Interim Report will be published, complications may arise due to the owners nationality and ship’s port of registration – and their compliance with any investigation. The MAIB will wish to quickly establish the disposition and health of the ship’s personnel during the ship’s passage from Ireland, including the deviation up Loch Linnhe towards Fort William and mooring at Corpach prior to it’s passage up the Sound of Mull. In search of the Eastern passage to Varberg, bit like coals to Newcastle – trees to Sweden ? Not least will be the curious delay in reporting the grounding to the Coastguard and the attempt at the Sound’s Northern exit prior to setting course for Oban. Surely there must have been setting up of the bottom plates and double bottoms when she whacked the rocky beach at 10 knots – the similar sized Danio, which hit the Farne Islands, has extensive damage to bottom plates? It has shown how the Coastguard deployed some of it’s assets and the prominence and reliance on the volunteer RNLI. Has anybody heard of any crew being cautioned or charged in relation to the grounding? Possibe charges are neglecting to keep a safe watch, endangering the lives of shipmates, and endangering the environment. - 31 hour shout Tobermory Lifeboat’s longest ever, ending in joint operation with Oban lifeboat
Marine Accident Investigation Branch MAIB have now posted this casualty as a “current investigation”. It is always difficult to assess when an Interim Report will be published, but I’m sure that this one will make really interesting reading, in this case, complications may arise due to the owners nationality and ship’s port of registration. The MAIB will wish to quickly establish the disposition and health of the ship’s personnel during the ship’s passage from Ireland, including the deviation up Loch Linnhe towards Fort William and mooring at Corpach prior to it’s passage up the Sound of Mull. In search of the Eastern passage to Varberg? Not least will be the curious delay in reporting the grounding to the Coastguard and the attempt at the Sound’s Northern exit prior to setting course for Oban. Not least it has shown how the Coastguard deployed some of it’s assets and the prominence and reliance on the volunteer RNLI. Has anybody heard of any crew being cautioned or charged in relation to the grounding? - Cargo ship MV Fri Ocean aground in the Sound of Mull
Looks like she’s heading for Oban – all the piers look busy tonight
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So, really Newsie you think Rupert Murdoch is ok??
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I think he’s much less dangerous and has done much less harm than Blair or Straw.
Lynda
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I suppose any politician in a democracy has to try not to alienate the moguls of the news media, with their ability to form public opinion (to put it politely), but it gives those moguls immense power over the workings of democracy.
There’s a clear risk of abuse and – in the case of the Murdoch dynasty – increasing power in the hands of people who aren’t British citizens, and who cannot be assumed to have the interests of us Brits at heart any more than they do those of the country that made them, the country they’ve grown too big for. That’s not to say they’re unique – from Robert Maxwell through Conrad Black there have arguably been worse, and now we’ve got a pornographer, and more recently a Russian oligarch. Surely there’s a need for some form of closer vetting of people buying themselves influence over our politicians.
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As with our utilities and major businesses.
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True, but aren’t newsmedia moguls likely to have far more influence over the way we’re governed (especially if they gain control over an increasingly large chunk of the media) than the big players in any other business sector?
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And that has to include the other even more influential player – The BBC – which is non stop – all day – mild but deliberate propaganda. (depending which side of the fence your are on )
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Malcolm, either substantiate this or save us the bother of reading it.
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Malcolm – what kind of propaganda do you consider the BBC to be putting out? Examples?
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So what do you suggest we do with BBC Scotland?
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Balance.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/2012/04/rupert_murdoch_-_a_portrait_of_1.html
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I agree. The BBC and BBC Scotland in particular are often lamentable.
Only today with a revised schedule Politics Today failed to cover FMQ although there was no clash with Prime Minister’s Questions as Westminster has, apparently, “risen” Instead, we were treated to a long and extremely boring discussion about drought which Andrew Neil assured us was affecting “the entire nation” About time sonebody gave him a ring from Paisley.
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Robert – you and your pals are so verbally aggressive and offensive – what’s wrong with you all ? Anyway far too busy to continue with this so enjoy ! Some good headlines on Salmond in the media today – Cheers !
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Much enjoying this recent photo. It is not only the Labour Party that stands accused of hypocrisy but the wide range of Scottish media which is deliberately ignoring it.
http://www.markpack.org.uk/28860/photo-of-ed-miliband-standing-up-to-rupert-murdoch/
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Well if we are all doing links…. http://news.stv.tv/politics/97629-alex-salmond-faces-grilling-from-msps-over-ties-to-rupert-murdoch/
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Obviously, Simon, you’ve missed the point again. I suppose we should be used to that by now.
Salmond has been all over all the papers on this issue, mostly front page, so your link is entirely redundant and immaterial.
Which newspaper had Milliband all over it?
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“Simon” Did you read your link? Or did you just grab the headline?
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The Sun, obviously, only not in Scotland.
I am a fan of the Newspaper Review that takes place at 1130 pm on SkyNews where two assorted media people comment on the newspapers as they are published. Obviously the issues that they cover are the important “metropolitan” ones and I am struck at the variations that appear on the Scottish editions when I see them on my newsagents displays the next morning.
The Daily Telegraph and the Scottish (sic) Daily Mail regularly and The Times and the Scottish (ha ha) Daily Express frequently carry anti-Scottish Government slants to their front covers. These sell so few copies here that we needn’t be unduly concerned at any influence that they might aspire to.
The Guardian, though well presented and written, makes few, if any concessions to the Scottish political scene, I suspect that Scottish Labour, while useful at one time, causes them some embarassment, and I am surprised that it sells here at all.
The Record, bless it, sticks rigorously to the old Labour line apart from Joan MacAlpine once a week, and the other red tops seem much more interested in Simon Cowell than in our one.
Labour’s sour grapes at losing the support of The Sun seem like a gross over reaction.
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How does the Independent rank, Ken?
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Robert,
I have to confess I have never bought it although it seldom seems to follow the pack and its front pages are mostly original in design and approach.Should I give it a try?
I don’t buy it myself but I read the P&J closely every day in connection with my work and the Argyll & Bute weeklies but I find FA a very useful source of opinion and reaction.
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Worth a try, I think (and I must admit to not reading the P&J though it’s clearly often worth checking (but not always – it seems to have fought shy of some of the Aberdeen city business / politics ‘affairs’ of recent years, maybe for good commercial reasons and supporting Newsroom’s comment ‘as with our utilities and major businesses’)
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The whole report is going to the full House of Commons for a vote. I wonder what way the SNP MPs will vote? Will they follow the Tories through the lobby, agreeing that Rupert is a ‘fit person’ to run a media empire?
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Wonder which way the Scottish MP’s will vote?
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Newsroom wrote:
“Phone hacking, reprehensible as it is, has not lost lives, to the best of our knowledge.”
The Watson parents from Glasgow would disagree; they contend that thoughtless, groundless, amoral press coverage can result in death. They shared their tragic story near the start of Leveson’s inquiry. And I believe that there are other victims who would agree.
But rather than getting into ‘which is the worst of multiple wrongs’, it is, I believe, a defensible position to say: In the regulated business of media ownership, special standards need to apply. And that the selective amnesia displayed by Rupert at least casts doubt on his fitness to run a UK regulated media business where proprietor conduct is open to scrutiny.
Even football sets ‘fit and proper’ standards. And media companies, given their power and influence, cannot conduct themselves with impunity, as Leveson is showing.
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Wouldn’t disagree with any of this – but moral standpoints come a touch rich from politicians who vote through on false premises measures affecting the nation; and who close ranks for party advantage against indefensible wrongs – like the war in Iraq and extraordinary rendition.
We have no quarrel with the Murdoch judgment, per se (although it is over-egged) but with the source of it – aggravated to a secondary degree by the fact that the committee members’ combined management experience of anything substantial will be on the slender side.
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So Newsroom
Are all our politicians a parcel of rogues with no moral compass or just some of them? If you blame all of them, then your premise could be that the masses should rise up as one and remove them. Or, on the other hand, just some in the Executive are evil and corrupt and we let the due process of law deal with them. Is this your argument or have I missed the facts that would support your position?
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Whatever the failings of Rupert Murdoch the anxiety of parliamentarians and hacks to condemn him while police investigations are ongoing show a complete contempt for a basic feature of our constitution, the separation of powers. And the rule of law.
I would rather put my trust in the police and prosecution authorities even with their imperfections than politicians and journalist who are opportunistic in concealing their own misdeeds.
By all means have a public enquiry after the production authorities have completed their enquiries and justice has taken it’s course but let’s not let politicians undermine the judicial process
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Mairi “I wonder what way the SNP MPs will vote? Will they follow the Tories through the lobby”
My prediction is they’ll abstain.
Just as they did way back then – ‘the snp those wonderful politicos that gave you Maggie Thatcher’
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Newsie – this comment is a pile of odure “the committee members’ combined management experience of anything substantial will be on the slender side”.
So, let analyse what you are saying here – it reads like ‘if someone does not have private sector management experience they are not fit to judge those who do’???
Is that really what you are saying??
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Simon,
That simply will not wash and the oft repeated lie does not become any more true from repetition ad nauseum.
What gave “us” Thatcher was the everwhelming votes of the UK electorate, although Scots remained doggedly unenthusiastic, and the UK electors sadly gave us her more than once.
The majority verdict of the Culture Committee appears to have been driven by the obsessive Tom Watson, MP, who blythely manages to overlook the long association of Blair/Brown with News International,e.g. the numerous back door visits to 10 Downing Street, the invitation to be Godfather( is that not appropriate?)to one of Bliar’s children, the sudden dash by Blair to attend a Far East Murdoch summit and the sad huff by Brown when the relationship went sour.
There is an effective Peter Brookes cartoon in today’s Times with Tom Harris stating
After months of evidence…
from this vile, corrupt and morally bankrupt company…
our committee is ready to publish…
my forgeone conclusions.
Sadly by following his lead the Committee has effectively ended with its credibility and its deliberations tainted by overstepping its brief and blindly following the party line.
Needless to state Mr Harris has a book published!
I note that Jim Sheridan is one of the Labour committee members and that in itself would cause me concern. Those who saw him on Newsnight Scotland on Tuesday night will understand what I mean.
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Ouch! Touched a wee raw nerve there did I Ken??
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Not with me I assure you.
I share Bill Jardine’s attitude to the anonymous commentator.
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