Comment posted Kilcreggan Ferry website by Jim Williamson.
Do Western not also have masters on their ferries? To suggest, even by inference, that they take chances because they are a private company is scandalous and, quite possibly, slanderous. All ferry operators work to the same rules, and these are set down by the MCA.
The weather conditions on Tuesday were such that Gourock Pier was untenable even to a boat the size of the Arran ferry the Caledonian Isles which spent much of the day sheltering at Ardrossan Harbour. The Argyll Flyer did manage one trip to Dunoon mid-afternoon but came back empty rather than risking trying to land at Gourock. The wee Island princess did come out and have a look at Gourock but decided, very wisely, to retreat back to the shelter of the dock at Greenock. If he had managed to berth, and someone got themselves hurt, how would that have gone down? Not very well I suggest!
Recent comments by Jim Williamson
- Scottish Government response to failure of Orkney ferry service exposes key issue
Timms has got nothing at all to do with Serco Northlink Ferries, which took over from the company of which Timms was chairman last July.Serco Northlink’s boss is Stuart Garrett, well known in the ferry industry for a long time and who, at one point, was the one of the bosses at the Isle of Man Steam Packet.
The contract let to Serco is exactly the same as the contract would have been had it been handed again to CalMac, of that there is no doubt. Serco at least had the sense to keep two freight boats available all year round, one of which is now providing sailings from Orkney to Scrabster, though only carrying lorries.
Perhaps newsie could make a wee phone call to Andrew Banks to see if they’ve got some sort of amicable arrangement in place for Serco to handle their lorry traffic while Pentland Ferries handles their car and passenger traffic?
- No Serco backup for breakdown of Hamnavoe on Northern Isles ferry service
Serco is a privateer? You make them sound like pirates!Was it not the case with the Rathlin service, that CMAL made the boat available to the Northern Irish Deaprtment of Regional Development and, thus, to any potential operator of the Rathlin ferry contract?
http://nalil.blogspot.co.uk/2008/06/new-rathlin-ferry-operator-2.html
- No Serco backup for breakdown of Hamnavoe on Northern Isles ferry service
There is a back-up in place. It’s called Pentland Ferries.Yet again the private sector is baling out the SNP.
- Interesting conundrum on fares for new Campbeltown ferry – is a legal challenge possible?
And bus pass holders travel for nothing. - New Campbeltown ferry pilot – a whale beached before it starts
The timetables and fares are now up on the CalMac website.http://www.calmac.co.uk/timetables/summer-timetables.htm?id=summer-kintyre-ardrossan-campbeltown.png
Shame that they couldn’t see fit to publish the same info for the extra Arran sailings at the same time!
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With regard to the Kilcreggan ferry website, it’s great that you were so impressed. Just a pity that on day 3 of the new service they didn’t sail one journey of the timetable despite the calm weather after 4pm! So much for ‘frequent reliable ferry services’ which appears to be their strapline!
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The new Kilcreggan ferry service is certainly having a tough baptism.
And it was not alone today in facing weather conditions which made sailing impossible.
Argyll Ferries’ Gourock-Dunoon service did not sail all day either – it made and abandoned one attempt in the early afternoon.
CalMac saw its Wemyss Bay-Rothesay service out of commission for the morning – even for boats of this size and weight, although this service was able to run its schedule in the afternoon.
The CalMac service from Lochranza in the north of Arran over to Claonaig in Kintyre was also out for much of the day, vulnerable to the unusual NE wind direction.
For the first part of the day Calmac’s ultra short Colintraive to Rhubodach service was running on Amber Alert, although it lost no sailings – but winds from the NE were even exposing that sheltered route and were certainly hitting the run from Gourock to Kilcreggan.
Ferries are not like cars because, where both are affected by windage, with ferries the ‘road’ moves. Choosing to live in places where water transport is necessary and largely pleasureable means that there will inevitably be days when ferries cannot run.
On the Clyde, Western Ferries probably has the best reliability record. The configuration and engines of their boats seem ideally suited to plugging on. We use AIS many times a day to see how ferries are getting on – and Western just keeps on trucking. It rarely stops and when it does, it’s usually the last to stop and the first to restart.
And the Calmac service from Largs to Cumbrae is pretty sheltered and therefore reliable.
Be fair – Seabus would have been off today as well.
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Rubbish. There was minimal swell after 4pm and the Seabus would have been back on. The fact is the toy boat these jokers have thrown at this route will not cope with the conditions nearly as well as the purpose build Seabus did and this lack of reliability will undermine the route further, playing straight into SPT’s hands.
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‘Rubbish’ – always the lazy insult – doesn’t cut it, Simoh.
Even if you were present and competent to judge that in the prevailing conditions on this route, Seabus would have been back on after 4.00pm, that would have seen the substantial majority of the day’s sailings on the route lost to Seabus as well.
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I take it you don’t use ferry services much.
To those who do, there is a big difference between no sailings at all and a recommenced service from 4pm, that allows commuters to get home!
Time will tell, but people on the Rosneath Peninsula are very concerned that this new vessel will not be reliable due to its lack of suitability for this route. The early signs are not good.
It might be helpful if you were a little less dismissive of our concerns.
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I liked the bit on their website about ‘Well behaved dogs are welcome onboard’….what about well behaved drunks and waens?
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Quite surprising that Western Ferries kept going on The Cloch – Hunters Quay route when Calmac had trouble on the Wemyss Bay – Rothesay route, given that the Calmac boats look as if they’d be able to cope with more lively sea conditions than the WF double ended open deck boats. Maybe the WF landings were more sheltered?
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Remember it wasn’t so long ago that two of the bigger Calmac vessels were both hit by sudden squalls that caused them to hit their piers. The Caley Isles had trouble at Ardrossan and the Isle of Mull was more or less pushed into the pier at Oban , fortunately , no repotrs of injuries in either. The old seadog saying “Take the sea for granted at your peril” is still very true today. Ultimately it is up to the vessel’s master whether to attempt the journeys in potentially dangerous waters in high winds but the company can over-rule him for safety to passenger reasons. Western Ferries (Clyde) Ltd is a wholly private concern and they will take chances. As for the smaller boats , what chance would they have?
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As we understand it, sailing decisions at Western Ferries are, as you say, the prerogative of the masters of the boats who take their independent decisions on the basis of their experience and with the safety and comfort of passengers to the fore. They obviously know what they’re doing.
Both of the Western berths are sheltered from the prevailing SW winds – but then so are the berths for the Argyll Ferries boats. The answer to Western’s manifestly greater resilience is probably a combination of a range of factors that come together – the boats, the engines, the route, the distance, the berths, the masters, the crew….
As you say, the sea retains its awesome independence and is not to be monkeyed with.
By the way, we know that you won’t have meant it this way and that your remark will have been no more than generalised speculation on private sector stances, but describing a commercial company with a first class safety record as ‘will take chances’ is unfounded and could be commercially damaging to the company.
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Do Western not also have masters on their ferries? To suggest, even by inference, that they take chances because they are a private company is scandalous and, quite possibly, slanderous. All ferry operators work to the same rules, and these are set down by the MCA.
The weather conditions on Tuesday were such that Gourock Pier was untenable even to a boat the size of the Arran ferry the Caledonian Isles which spent much of the day sheltering at Ardrossan Harbour. The Argyll Flyer did manage one trip to Dunoon mid-afternoon but came back empty rather than risking trying to land at Gourock. The wee Island princess did come out and have a look at Gourock but decided, very wisely, to retreat back to the shelter of the dock at Greenock. If he had managed to berth, and someone got themselves hurt, how would that have gone down? Not very well I suggest!
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The WF route is not more sheltered, but the terminals are,and the risk of damage
during berthing is more likely to stop the service than the sea conditions on passage.
Hunter’s Quay was historically the bad-weather pier for the paddlers. ( Calmac were
quite at liberty to buy the place before WF moved in ) Likewise the north face
of Wemyss Bay Pier was the bad weather berth there, and could be used by any future
passenger-only service, but the car-ferries must now berth on the exposed side to
give access to the road.
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Like website lets hope service doesn’t read ” Gourock sailings for the remainder of the day are cancelled. We apologise for any inconvenience.” time will tell
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Newsie – “‘Rubbish’ – always the lazy insult – doesn’t cut it, Simon.”
But then Simon didn’t post it …..
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Sincere apologies, Simon – it’s late and an ‘h’ for an ‘n’ is no less regrettable for being understandable.
The ‘always the lazy insult’, by the way, refers to ‘Rubbish’ and not the author.
And thank you for the correction – our response has been amended.
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I understand that the inexperienced crew of Island Princess parted a mooring line yesterday morning at Gourock. They WILL learn by their mistakes and hopefully before someone gets hurt!
Clydelink’s timetable on their new website is not the same as SPT’s published timetable.
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Surely all the crews that operate vessels on the Clyde have been certificated to the same standard? Do you mean that the crew of the ‘new’ Kilcreggan Ferry are in a sub-standard league compared to Calmac or Western crews. One thing I will say though , the ‘Island Princess’ crew didn’t have safety boots , rope handling gloves or even corporate uniforms , surely this breaks the Health & Safety at Work regulations at least.
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I sailed for the first time yesterday on Island Princess and when we were returning from Gourock in the afternoon there was nothing more than a slight ripple, however the crew (and I don’t blame them) really struggled to get the boat into position to tie up. Once we were finally tied up we had to use the lower steps. I have never had to do this but the slime and seaweed should be cleaned off as a matter of common sense! During the crossing we crossed the slight wake of a small Mod Boat and the Island Princess lurched about quite violently. Having experienced this for myself and hearing the opinions of other regular ferry users I will not use the ferry in poorer conditions although I genuinely think it will take very little for the service to be cancelled. Anyone can promise the moon on a stick with an all singing and dancing website, delivering it is another matter!!
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PS the length of time taken to tie up at Gourock certainly did not meet the timetabled 3 minute turnaround!!
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The berthing procedures are very slow at the moment – but to be realistic, it is early days with all systems and crew new to the job. We would be more worried if they were being flashy, fast and loose.
Do not forget that at the heart of this are SPT and Argyll and Bute Council who somehow imagined that they could change route, operator, boat, crew and berthing procedures ‘just like that’.
And in terms of the council, if we vote them back in on 3rd May we will certainly get what we’ve asked for – more of the same.
Would different be better? Could it be worse?
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Fortunately, on 3rd May we can change our councillors ‘just like that’ if we so wish.
However, we won’t be able to change any of the top staff who might just sometimes be the ‘tail wagging the dog’, so let’s hope that the new councillors will take a proactive view of their rights and responsibilities, and not be afraid of reform where necessary – for example, in their dealings with SPT and treatment of the beleagured residents of the Rosneath peninsula.
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To be realistic…its simple, the boat does not have enough power to manoeuvre into position in good conditions with a very minor swell. A qualified profession crew have had plenty time to get to grips with mooring a boat in good weather!
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Maybe one thing you haven’t thought about on mooring this vessel , it probably doesn’t have bow or stern thrusters to help it ‘tread water’ alongside the piers to help the rope handlers. The skipper then has to acertain his angles upon approach his landing stages , slowing his vessel down sooner than usual.
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And F.A. know all about making damaging comments about companies!
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You cannot allege that Western Ferries are less than capable of running their ferries. This not only slanders and libels the company but also those individuals who run their service. I for one do not want to be associated with this sort of comment. There is not one shred of evidence that they are less than capable. It’s simply shocking to suggest or imply that they are less than competent, unless there is evidence to the contrary.
Slanderous – oral communication of false statements injurious to a person’s reputation; A false and malicious statement or report about someone.
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Remember the unseasonable September storm last year , the 12th I think , all ferries were off , including the big ships on the Clyde. I was out and about that day with my camera and continually buffeted and could hardly stand. I went dow to the ‘Western Pier’ in Gourock. I took some shelter from the high winds to steady myself to take some pictures of a Western boat with holiday traffic onboard come out of the pier and was immediately hit by a humungus wave 3 minutes out. With the Western boats not having a bow to disperse such big waves , the white wave crashed into the square head-on and the whole lot covered the ship. The question I was asking , why were they still running in such harsh conditions when the other companies were off?
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I actually felt safer on a Western Ferry in these conditions than on any other ferry, including the Streakers. Put simply, if it is hit by a big wave, the water has nowhere else to go other than back over the side, or off the other end of the boat.
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Please correct the on-line timetable. There was no 11.40am ferry today!
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I haven’t used either of the passenger ferries now operating from Dunoon and Kilcreggan,
so I have no opinion on the vessels suitability for these services. What I will throw
into the discussion is many inhabitants of Utsira ( yes… the place in the weather forecast …
it’s a bit more exposed than Kilcreggan ) commute daily to Haugesund winter and summer, on a smallish passenger ferry, without excessive service disruptions.
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