Comment posted Was no Scottiish University capable of doing the mathematical model on the impact of minimum pricing of alcohol? by Mairi.
I think there is a group at Sheffield who for years have been researching this area. They have expertise in the epidemiology, public health, mathematical modelling and economics (plus perhaps further sub-disciplines) necessary to do this work.
Likewise, we have lots of expert teams in our Universities that get used by organisations – public and private – in other parts of the UK and abroad. Think aquaculture at Stirling, political polling at Strathclyde (think how often John Curtice is used by media outlets UK-wide) … you get the idea.
If they went for the people with the right experience and expertise, I have no problem with that.
Mairi also commented
- Spare us the partisan blogs, Morag. This is about the Universities and specialist research.
- The very essence of Universities is that they do research – pushing out the boundaries of human knowledge. That wouldn’t happen to the same extent if they all research the same things. So proper expertise is always going to be dispersed.
Recent comments by Mairi
- Strachur Post Office under threat of closure
When in fact the various parties should focus their energies on working together to get the best for local businesses, like Charles’. That blame game never won any jobs. - Proposal for independent Scotland to share UK welfare system admin to 2020+
That conclusion – ‘to continue sharing’- is only worth anything if both parties agree to share. And there is no sign that the rest of the UK would find anything in this that would benefit them. So why would they agree to share?With that in mind, I think Jerry McIver nails it in comment #1 above. Why would England and Wales want all their DWP administration services done in a foreign country? What do they gain? Can it be done better and cheaper in a different foreign country? Or somewhere else in the rUK, like the north-west of England, or south Wales?
These decisions will – on both sides – be hard-nosed, with little room for sentiment. Inevitably.
- DVLA: one example of what demerging means
Service level agreements and penalties are notoriously difficult to get right – people rarely foresee all the future circumstances that might warrant their application.And if you get to the stage that you need to deploy penalties, things are in a mess, and the voting public will – rightly – have little patience. They expect public services to be delivered in a transparent way, with democratic scrutiny.
It’s not unknown for out-sourced contractual arrangements that go wrong – often with faults on both sides – to result in lengthy and expensive legal wrangles. Not a place a newly independent country wants to find itself.
- Proposal for independent Scotland to share UK welfare system admin to 2020+
“is it fair that the taxpayers in the rest of the UK should pay for all the costs in separating out those assets”
asked Lundavra.Exactly – good shout. If I live in Wales, didn’t ask for this change, was given no say in whether or not it should happen, then that makes a strong argument for saying ‘No’ – I shouldn’t pick up the tab for any of these consequential costs.
Whoever pays – one thing’s for sure: The lawyers would earn big-time.
- DVLA: one example of what demerging means
I have a big problem with the overseas out-sourcing of public services in a newly independent Scotland. In some exceptional circumstances it can – perhaps – be justified. But it’s almost become the preferred modus operandi for the SNP. They seem to want to use it wholesale, and this starts to weaken democratic accountability. Never mind that it completely undermines the whole notion of what is independence.At the moment these DVLA services are subject to direct democratic oversight and accountability. As of now, the standards and performance of the DVLA are – ultimately – the responsibility of the Secretary of State for Transport. He or she can be called before OUR Parliament to answer questions, must cooperate with OUR Transport Select Committee, be directed to appear in front of any special inquiries, and generally be answerable for public services like the DVLA, in all of the UK, including Scotland. That is a cherished, democratic principle.
How does this work in an independent Scotland? Do we try to hold a foreign minister to account? Or ask the Scottish Minister with the responsibility for overseeing this outsourced arrangement to answer questions about the service and its performance? If there are problems, I can see a scenario where one points the finger at the other, and we end up with a classic fudge. No-one was at fault , or worse, It wasn’t me – the bad boy did it and ran away.
Of course, the most bizarre of these is the outsourcing of our very currency to what would then be a different country. Staying with the Pound would mean “out-sourcing” all the big monetary and fiscal levers to that foreign government. With absolutely no democratic accountability available to Scots. It really feels like our parliament and government would be emasculated under such arrangements.
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I think there is a group at Sheffield who for years have been researching this area. They have expertise in the epidemiology, public health, mathematical modelling and economics (plus perhaps further sub-disciplines) necessary to do this work.
Likewise, we have lots of expert teams in our Universities that get used by organisations – public and private – in other parts of the UK and abroad. Think aquaculture at Stirling, political polling at Strathclyde (think how often John Curtice is used by media outlets UK-wide) … you get the idea.
If they went for the people with the right experience and expertise, I have no problem with that.
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Also, no one can later accuse any Scottish University of any bias in the findings :>] Gail.
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I think a number of Scottish universities were approached, but the students were all too pi–ed on cheap booze to understand the question.
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Pathetic comment!
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One too many alcopops for you today then?
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Cheap comments about students at Scottish Universities from someone who goes by the title of School Defender is to say the least rather juvenile.
What’s an alcopop anyway ?????
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Grow a sense of humour.
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Imagine what the Scottish media and politicians would say if a national newspaper criticised the UK government for using a Scottish university to produce a report. Surely the best policy is to use the people with the most experience in a particular field.
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Surely you go for the expertise wherever it is located!
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Of course you do. It is just a surprise that no Scottish University had the required level of expertise in mathematical modelling.
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I’m all for keeping it local but that’s a wee parochial, newsroom. The study needed to be robust and beyond reproach, so best for it to go to where the research is being done. Horses for courses.
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The very essence of Universities is that they do research – pushing out the boundaries of human knowledge. That wouldn’t happen to the same extent if they all research the same things. So proper expertise is always going to be dispersed.
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I think its a moot point anyway. The whole exercise is useless. The people they want to target with minimum pricing, will not stop drinking – they will just do without other things.
Everyday people who don’t abuse alchohol will be the ones that stop buying the odd bottle of wine etc now and the industry will be the true bearer of the costs.
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http://moridura.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/media-boozeand-hidden-hand-of-booze.html
A little sensible perspective?
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Spare us the partisan blogs, Morag. This is about the Universities and specialist research.
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I found the “partisan” blog from Morag to be interesting and a suitable counterblast to the approach to this proposed legislation of the Scotch Whisky Association and their friends in high places.Moderate drinkers have little to fear from this.
Trying to do something about the problems that Scottish society has with alcohol is surely preferable to doing what past administrations have done up till now.
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For ‘Scotch Whisky Association’ you can effectivey read ‘Diageo’ – whose buying power in the lobby is unparallelled.
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I think you’ll find the ‘partisan blog’ was a response to Crazy’s cynicism, Mairi. No need to be quite so touchy.(Crazy, I would add I defend your right to cynicism although I agree fully with Ken above.)
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Thank you Alison. I am afraid having spent most of my life in proverty-striken and deprived areas ie the Land of Neds, I have cynicism deeply rooted in my bones.
However, in this case, I wasn’t really aiming to cynically dismiss the government’s attempt to curb the after-effects of drink – I was just stating the facts as I see them. Knowing lots of people who this whole exercise is aimed at and knowing it will not change a thing for them.
Except of course, some might decide to switch to drugs when they realise that drugs are cheaper than booze.
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That the Scottish Government provided work for an English University is testimony to its intent that we should also be good neighbours.
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That there is even a discussion on this subject , shows how far the poisonous nationalist agenda has percolated
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As in ‘What’s your poison’, Islay for ever?
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Bile, seemingly…. bad day at the polls, maybe.
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LOL More of your liberty and wealth getting stolen by the Scottish Nazi Party,
how Kim Jung Fat salmond and his green shirt colleagues have embraced the EU version of Hitler’s plan from 1941 lets punish all the people for the sake of the few, Here is a novel idea lets lower the drinking age say (15) set up 15-18 year old educational pubs have responsible “adults” to monitor the consumption guess what maybe our children would learn to drink sensibly, rather than sitting outside with a group of their peers drinking till the stuff is finished
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How offensive can one get.?
If Keith McMillan believes he is a “sensible adult” then if you don’t mind I will seek out someone who does not call their fellow human beings by such gutter words. Should be ashamed.
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Hamish100
You get the award for being the most sensitive poster LOL now what gutter words have I used? Damn Argyll has got so PC? Maybe we should pass a law banning words that people don’t like (demolition man comes to mind “John Sparta you have been fined 100 credits for using inappropriate language”)
In the UK as a whole we have 68,835 statute laws not including the UN, EU or HSE enforced statute laws look at the way your police are dressed (safety for them or intimidation) is that a free democratic society?
Our government is created and operated as a for profit corporations (look it up on D&B business solutions) our police force, courts, NHS, DVLA and any government agency is set up as a profit making company (here is a link D+B http://www.dnb.com/) try looking up Oban court house or Strathclyde police.
Hamish we have all been stitched up sold on the ticket of “this is for the safety of our country” yet your money and wealth has been stripped and sent abroad for the banker’s enjoyment.
The Scottish people will let the SNP introduce this law and the price of drink will go up, but guess what the people that drink will continue to drink, it won’t stop underage drinking, it won’t stop binge drinking, but you will be happy because you have a new law
Why not just make the drunks pay for their hospital treatment, or the police time dealing with their bad behaviour, What a silly idea of trying to make people responsible for their actions
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Bad day somewhere , that’s for sure!
“Scottish Nazi Party”, “Green shirts”, “EU versions”, “Hitler’s plan from 1941″.
Where is this fantacist coming from?
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Unfortunately, sometimes the whole business of politics seems to bring out the rant in some people
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Robert; sometimes in politics the people fall asleep and listen to the polimagician crap and guess what when the truth comes out they don’t want to hear it
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‘Falling asleep’ reminds me of that MSP who was brought to book in Holyrood today for three times failing to attend questions in parliament – most recently preferring a very nice lunch indeed that was described in loving detail by the BBC. I wouldn’t be surprised if she’d fallen asleep afterwards, and I think that her parliamentary days might be numbered.
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Joan McAlpine’s parliamentary days should be numbered for this latest (and sixth such absence) of a series of varied errors that point to high degree of juvenile irresponsibility and lack of judgment. But she is the First Minister’s aide, is said to have been lunching with him today, so, although this calls Mr Salmond’s judgment into question as well, the betting on her survival has to be off.
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For the avoidance of doubt, in the interests of accuracy, and because it’s worth recording for posterity, it was actually the sixth time she’d skipped class; Ms McAlpine started with smoked venison with a Strathdon blue cheese dressing and red wine pear, followed by breast of Scottish chicken with grilled asparagus chorizo, olives and Parma ham. (apparently she didn’t photograph her meal and put it on her blog, and I think the BBC lost a comma). No mention of any drink partaken or pudding course consumed might support the fact that Ms McAlpine was preparing for Health and Wellbeing Question Time. An opposition MSP accused her of being a newspaper columnist, but that smacks of character assassination.
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Update, courtesy of today’s Herald: There was indeed drink taken, her meal was ‘washed down with a bottle of Pinot Grigio’. Could explain the lack of photos or blog. The Herald goes on to describe her as ‘a former newspaper executive’ – so she could have brought her lunching habits with her to her new school, or it might just have been a run-of-the mill lunch for the pupils at this particular establishment.
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Bad day somewhere , that’s for sure! (a great day actually)
“Scottish Nazi Party”,(look at the laws these people have put in place) “Green shirts”,( have a look into the treaty of Rio and SNP plan for a one size fits all police force) “EU versions Hitler’s plan from 1941″ (try stop watching east enders for one night and have a look into the history of the EU)
Where is this fantacist coming from? (Everything you have quoted is correct mate well documented just a case of you researching it.)
But here Ken if I have it all wrong tell me about Alex Salmond SNP and the cover up of the “Abuse of Hollie Gregg” you know the case that when the mother found out the truth and exposed it she was sent to a mental hospital or the lawyer representing her getting his office and home raided “case papers and some other evidence being taken” tell me when was the last time you heard of someone being locked up for a year on a breach of the peace
Fantasist yeah that’s me mate so guess that must make you one of the sleeping sheep
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Looks like I got it wrong. I misspelt fantasist!
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Damn Ken don’t tell me there is spelling police on this board LOL
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I think when someone is this angry it’s best just to step back.
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I think forargyll.com could do with a Loving Mallet of Correction.
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