Well if we get a new Administration then …

Comment posted Argyll Rural Schools Network puts all candidates to the test on rural schools by Integrity? Not in the ConDemAll.

Well if we get a new Administration then it will a SNP led coalition meaning the leader will be an SNP councillor however George would be an excellent canidate to be deputy leader.

Integrity? Not in the ConDemAll also commented

  • Not according to COSLA – they believe that there really isn’t much of a correlation between the closing of a school and impact on the surrounding area.

    Of course they have no evidence to support this claim – but then again nor did Ally McLeod when he claimed Scotland would win the world cup and…. oh yeh.

  • There may be an occasional update to the list as responses come in so do check back prior to election day.
  • Just a quick update on this. Excellent response so far (from candidates across A&B) with still a week to go before we publish the list of candidates.

    Things are being arranged with the media as well.

  • oh and also George Freeman obviously.
  • Mary Devon voted against on November 25th along with Cllr MacNaughton.

Recent comments by Integrity? Not in the ConDemAll

  • Darling launching pro-union Tourism Together on Loch Lomond this morning
    In that ‘never trust a commie’ statement, for me, you have presented yourself as the No campaigns equivalent to No Cheese Here for the Yes campaign.
  • Darling launching pro-union Tourism Together on Loch Lomond this morning
    To be honest a No voter should be keen to encourage NCH to post as much as possible. There must by Yes campaigners who cringe at his ignorance and belligerent manner. Don’t knows will be swung by idiotic and aggressive posts.
  • Jamie Grigor gets answers on current cost of Argyll Ferries passenger ferry contract

    Back at my PC now so easier to respond. I accept entirely that there are plus sides to the right to buy scheme. The massive discounts do let people get on the property ladder who would otherwise have struggled to and this provides a degree of security and an asset to act as a safety net if things go bad, or can be handed down to younger family members later in life to help them get a foot up in life.

    It certainly does provide greater independence in terms of life choices and I also accept the point about ownership often resulting in there being more pride and, consequently care of the home and surrounding area.

    So I do recognise there are positives – to be honest there are not many policies where there are not ‘for’ and ‘against’ arguments. I suppose everyone has to make an opinion on which outweighs the other.

    For me, right to buy is more negative than positive.

    It has created a massive hole in social housing. That is not entirely due to right to buy as successive governments have failed to build sufficiently however right to but contributed to it massively. In particular Thatcher’s policy to prevent councils reinvesting the receipts from right to buy into building new homes. The combination of these failings is now very apparent in the housing crisis and astronomical numbers of people in temporary housing. Rural communities in particular are hit hard due to reluctance of councils to build in rural areas. There are many instances of rural areas losing all their social housing through right to buy and now having no affordable homes whatsoever. The knock on effect of this is falling school rolls, diminishing facilities for young families etc etc – the potential endgame being the very sustainability of the area.

    There is also the very principle of social housing (which is what I touched on in my original post). The intention of social housing was to use public money to benefit the entire country, not to financially benefit individuals. I appreciate not everyone used right to buy to benefit financially (either through corrupt practices or entirely legal ones such as selling on for big profit or through renting them at market rates whilst having well below ‘market’ mortgages. This was an inevitable consequence of the policy which anyone could see coming. The public purse, in these cases, was being dipped into to return private profit.

    On the matter of ‘corruption’ it is certainly true that it wasn’t just people getting on the property ladder and enhancing their security and self-esteem. It was plagued with corruption and abuse by both individuals and companies who managed a plethora of former council houses. However I accept that shouldn’t be used to criticise people who did it in good faith.

    A further consequence is that the council stock which isn’t bought privately tends to be the worst of the stock. This means people moving into social housing thorough necessity are probably stigmatised more now than they ever were before. The result being quite the opposite of enhanced self-esteem.

    As I have said before I should say that I have no problem with people who took advantage of the right to buy – if an opportunity like that is provided by the Government it would be insane not took take advantage. My ‘beef’ is that the opportunity should never have been provided in the first place.

    Also as I have said before a staggering statistic is that the average discount awarded on right to buy properties is 47% (give or take a few decimal places) and as at the end of 2011 £45.5 billion of capital receipts for the Right-to-Buy scheme had been taken in. That means the value of assets given away by the public purse was (as at end of 2011) a staggering £40.4 billion! I just don’t believe for a second it, as a policy, has delivered either value for money or sufficiently enhanced quality of life for the country as a whole.

    Just my two cents (plus change!!)

  • Darling launching pro-union Tourism Together on Loch Lomond this morning
    One off polls are always marginally interesting in terms of sparking a bit of feel good factor for one camp or another however it is always a little pointless picking one poll and getting excited about it whilst ignoring a different one which tells a slightly different story.

    The BBC website’s poll tracker is a useful tool to get an idea of the movement over a 6 month period, across six different survey companies (Panelbase, YouGov, Survation, TNS BMRB, Ipsos Mori and ICM). I will grant you there are more poll providers than these six. It is the overall trend over the extended period which people should take more notice of.


    It would be useful if the BBC combined all the results into one graph rather than just showing the individual ones however it isn’t too difficult to get a feel from quickly reviewing the six.

    Ignoring the Don’t Knows.’ Over the past six months two of the six show a small reduction for the NO vote and Survation showing a big reduction of 6%. The other three show a small increase for the NO vote. Meanwhile bar ICM they all show a gradual increase for the YES vote (Survation again the outlier as it shows a 9% increase).

    A slightly quick and dirty averaging of all six shows very marginal movement over 6 months. No down 1% and YES up 3%.

    The biggest variation across the pollers seems to be the number of ‘Don’t Knows’ ICM and TNS sometimes have it as high as 28% however the other four tend to have it fairly consistently in the 11-15% range.

  • Darling launching pro-union Tourism Together on Loch Lomond this morning
    I have to say that as an English person living in Scotland I don’t find the Snp or Yes campaign to be anti English. Sure there are some members and supporters who are but no more or less of a bigoted minority than you get in the vast majority of societies.

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26 Responses to Well if we get a new Administration then …

    • About as surprising as your inability to comment on the actual story.

      In their submission to the Rural Education Commission COSLA claim that rural schools only have a limited contribution to community life and that they are not aware of any evidence to support the claim that schools should be continued simply on the grounds of the role it places in the community. First and foremost this is a misrepresentation of the arguments and views expressed by parents and campaigners across Scotland. ARSN have no knowledge of any campaign which argues for school retention solely on the grounds of community impact, campaigns focus on all relevant factors with community impact being just one of them.

      ARSN recognise that there is limited research on the impact of schools on community sustainability however disagree with COSLA’s claim that there is none. Two such studies, the ‘Outer Hebrides Migration Study’ and ‘Factors Influencing Rural Migration Decisions in Scotland: An Analysis of the Evidence’ should be well known to COSLA as they were erroneously referenced by Argyll & Bute Council as providing evidence that the existence of schools were not of significant importance to the sustainability of rural communities. The author of the Hebrides study wrote to ARSN and stated that ‘ Overall I feel that using this report as a basis for concluding that schools are less important in sustaining rural communities is wholly unjustified. The report clearly states that business, jobs and housing are the factors that will help to sustain local communities and that retaining primary school rolls is an explicit desirable outcome of doing so.’

      Equally the researcher of the second study stated ‘“My research did not recommend the closure of rural primary schools. It highlighted the importance of rural schools in enhancing the social and economic sustainability of some areas.”

      We would welcome more research into this area find it disturbing that COSLA are seeking to reduce the importance of this issue. COSLA have specifically asked the Commission to provide clarity on what is expected and proportional for authorities to evidence during their consideration of community impact and expressed a clear dissatisfaction that communities expect Councils to undertake unique research and reports into every closure proposal. Whilst ARSN recognise that some generic research may be applicable to all closure proposals it is quite clear that each community will have local issues that are specific to their community and their community only. We consider COSLA’s desire to minimize the requirement for community impact assessments of closure proposals as having questionable motive and contrary to the Commission’s remit.

      COSLA’s letter also dismisses the impact of GAE, questions the ability of campaigners to understand the complexities of local government finance and appears to take offence that officer’s competence is questioned. This assumption that the public has neither the capacity nor experience to challenge is symptomatic of a culture that fails to recognise the abilities of the Scottish public and conveniently ignores the proven errors made by Council officers in a number of closure proposals. The Scottish Rural Schools Network has, on numerous occasions, highlighted fundamental errors in Council’s calculation of GAE with proposal papers having to be revised as a direct consequence.

      COSLA further highlights their concern about delivery of the CfE in rural schools. This is an argument that has been repeated, practically verbatim, in numerous closure proposals despite a lack of evidence to support it. ARSN can highlight many examples of small rural schools delivering CfE and receiving ‘Excellent’ classifications in their HMIE/Education Scotland reports in this category. If individual councils are struggling to deliver CfE in a small school then they should identify the root cause of this rather than blaming it on school size. School size has been proven not to be a limiting factor and the Rural Education Commission confirmed this during its visit to Lochgilphead Joint Campus in March 2012. An analysis of the submissions to the Commission’s call for evidence highlights that teachers do not believe that school size is a limiting factor in the delivery of CfE despite council claims. That the opinion of practitioners appears to be being ignored by elected members is of great concern to ARSN and makes us sceptical about COSLA’s claim that ‘Councils want to do the best for Scotland’s children.

      Just as COSLA are claiming small schools will struggle to deliver CfE it is also possible to construct a counter argument that small schools will be more effective in implementing CfE than larger schools. Mixed age classes are more common in rural primaries than in urban schools with studies demonstrating that mixed age learning tends to have a positive educational effect on pupils and that small class size has beneficial effects on group learning, largely through better discipline when there are fewer groups and also the ability of the teacher to give time to each group rather than having to police discipline.

      Given that the rural education commission is still to complete its work it is strange that COSLA choose this particular time to issue this letter to the national media and we can only conclude that it has been done in an attempt to inappropriately influence the commission’s conclusions.

      Or, in shorter terms, COSLA are talking twaddle!

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  1. Yes Simon, we all saw and tell me did you notice the complete flippin lack of evidence COSLA supplied to back up their propaganda? mmmmmm?

    Wonder what they think they have to gain by such a ridiculously baseless article, when the Commission is nearing a conclusion to it’s work. Unless of course, COSLA are pooping their pants that the Commission comes back with the results COSLA don’t want… mmmm?

    My evening will be very pleasant thank you :)

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  2. Could it be that post-election we may have a different COSLA-one that better represents the mood of the country?
    The times they are a-changing?

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  3. Given the recent COSLA report,the unrepentant stance of many Councillors currently in post, and bearing in mind the imminence of the Local Council Elections on May 3rd, it is perhaps timely to remind everyone that on 25th November 2010, and in the face of huge and vocal opposition, the following 19 Councillors voted to close 25 Primary Schools in Argyll and Bute:

    • Rory Colville, Liberal Democrat
    • Robin Currie, Liberal Democrat
    • Vivien Dance, Independent
    • Alison Hay, Liberal Democrat
    • Daniel Kelly, Independent
    • David Kinniburgh, Conservative
    • Neil MacKay, Independent
    • Bruce Marshall, Independent
    • Donnie Macmillan, Independent
    • Duncan McIntyre, Independent
    • James McQueen, Independent
    • Ellen Morton, Liberal Democrat
    • Gary Mulvaney, Conservative
    • Andrew Nisbett, Liberal Democrat
    • William Petrie, Provost, Independent
    • Al Reay, Liberal Democrat
    • Elaine Robertson, Independent
    • Len Scoullar, Independent
    • Dick Walsh, Independent and Council Leader.

    It might be prudent for voters to bear this record in mind in respect of those of the above who are offering themselves for re-election. Is the future of our children safe in their hands? The record suggests not, and the remedy is obvious. DON’T VOTE FOR THE NAUGHTY NINETEEN! Vote instead for candidates who have a CLEAR MANIFESTO COMMITMENT to keeping our schools open. This is our one chance to put things right once and for all. A new brush sweeps clean! GRRR

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  4. Thanks Tyger I’ll certainly bear this voting record in mind. As will many others I’m sure.

    You guys are going to be so ticked if these folks get returned. :)

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  5. I’m not interested in trying to impress anyone on here as sadly none of you can vote for me ;-)

    I am 100 per cent behind that statement though. Communities need rural schools just as schools need communities. I’ve seen the after effects of a community school being demolished (in Edinburgh) and the effect on the local area was devastating.

    God willing, our own battle to save Muirfield will end on May 3rd. I then hope Arbroath can move forward and also hope that Argyll doesnt have to suffer the same agony of school closure proposals as now.

    Good luck A&B and please choose your votes wisely. ;-)

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      • Drumbrae Primary School. Very sad what happened to that community. It closed just a few months before the Schools Consultation Act came into force after a very vocal campaign by locals. I used to live just down the road from it in Edinburgh and when I visited the site last year I was shocked at how derelict it looked.

        A community that had a strong connection because of the school devastated by the demolition squad.

        Thanks for the good luck wishes!

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  6. Pingback: Argyll News: Candidate response to Argyll Rural Schools Network | For Argyll

  7. We all know that money is tight just now and education does take a large slice of the local budget. Having said that, I think that any school closure has to be approached with great caution.
    The closing a school not only affects the viability of the immediate community, but also has long term effects on surrounding areas and its infrastructure. In fact the closure could cause more problems than it solves.

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    • Not according to COSLA – they believe that there really isn’t much of a correlation between the closing of a school and impact on the surrounding area.

      Of course they have no evidence to support this claim – but then again nor did Ally McLeod when he claimed Scotland would win the world cup and…. oh yeh.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  8. Oh dear! Just seen the list of councillors/candidates who have signed up for this.

    Helmets on, popcorn at the ready, I have a feeling the fun is about to begin.

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