Comment posted Ship grounding demonstrates risk level for NW Scotland without ETV tugs by Robert Wakeham.
Why should community buy outs be jeopardised? Go and visit Knoydart, and then tell us that you think the land fund should be sacrificed because the government is incapable of understanding the potential risk of massive environmental damage in the event of a shipwreck – the same government that has better uses for the Crown Estate’s Scottish marine tax revenue than to invest some of it in this safeguard.
Robert Wakeham also commented
- You’ve forgotten £2 billion (including associated costs) for building a duplicate Forth road bridge.
- And if disaster threatens on a really stormy night in the Minch or off Orkney / Shetland? – wouldn’t a large tug have an advantage then?
- Pass.
- And as the Crown Estate appears not to be a devolved matter, it’s surely right that their Scottish marine taxes should be used to help protect the Scottish marine environment from a pollution disaster.
- There seems to have been a great deal of luck involved, given that the east coast of the Outer Hebrides is mostly rock – the crew of the Flinterspirit must have had the fright of their lives. That stretch of the North Uist coast seems to be a maze of islands, channels and numerous creeks and bays that dry out, so even a relatively small ship could do immense damage if it was left to break up on the rocks and the fuel tanks ruptured.
Recent comments by Robert Wakeham
- Minutes of today’s meeting of ‘Concerned Councillors’ Group
Perhaps Argyll should be reclassified from a local authority area to a semi-wilderness zone not suited to self-government, of a similar standing to the Northwest Territories in Canada; if that doesn’t work, then how about the Tribal Areas of Pakistan’s Northwest Frontier? – anarchic groups that continually disintegrate and morph into new allegiances, beyond rational control and inviting attack by pilotless rocket-firing drones controlled from outside the country’s borders. Attacks noisily condemned by a dis-functional central government, but secretly welcomed. - CalMac geared up to start Campbeltown-Ardrossan ferry service on Thursday night
If indeed Calmac were ‘thrown a curve ball’ by the Scottish government then it doesn’t bode well for the future, if indeed the government is into cynical manipulation of public finances to enhance their popularity.
The trouble is, this would fit with the apparent cynical manipulation, by this government, of Argyll & Bute Council politics – and if this really is all in character then it reinforces my cynicism about politicians in general.
You can find some decent ones, in most parties, if you try – but anyone listening to Alex Salmond jousting with James Naughtie on BBC R4 ‘Today’, this morning, will have heard him claim that Denis Healey (whom I respected for his ability in government) has said that the Treasury deliberately underplayed the value of Scottish oil in years gone by to make independence seem less attractive.
A plague on the lot of them. - Walsh to lead all but Lib Dems, Conservatives and George Freeman
I’m just wondering if this is a wild goose chase – barking up the wrong tree, so to speak – and it might be a creature of a different political colour altogether? - Walsh to lead all but Lib Dems, Conservatives and George Freeman
Talking of Conservatives, and bearing in mind the ornithological wonders of this part of the world, has anyone yet spotted a swivel-eyed loon? – or is it an imaginary creature? - First Minister’s choice not to condemn mob behaviour proves Farage point
Farage was in Edinburgh to raise the profile of UKIP – don’t underestimate wee Nige.
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There seems to have been a great deal of luck involved, given that the east coast of the Outer Hebrides is mostly rock – the crew of the Flinterspirit must have had the fright of their lives. That stretch of the North Uist coast seems to be a maze of islands, channels and numerous creeks and bays that dry out, so even a relatively small ship could do immense damage if it was left to break up on the rocks and the fuel tanks ruptured.
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I agree that the withdrawal of the ETVs could be disastrous. But what will happen in an independent Scotland? If the UK, with more than 60 million people, cannot afford to keep them going, how will less than 6 million people be able to pay the bills?
I am, I know, quite naive about these things.
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Put a toll booth at each end of the Minch ?
We need a deep water tug, it’s an insurance policy against disaster.
Living on Tiree if the weather is bad out in the Atlantic we get our fair share of bulk carriers and tankers in the Minch and even in the Sea of Tiree…we have ferries serving the Western Isles and Inner hebrides … this is a basic necessity…as soon as we have an environmental disaster, or folk die I would like to see the name of the persons who said no to a DWT…dragged through the courts for environmental damage or worse, corprate manslaughter…
Scotland is a business, if you are going to run a business you have responsibilities that cost hard cash. This is one such case.
Most likely that at a later date the Scottish Government will expect the Renewables industry to foot the bill..
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If you charge the ship owners some kind of Minch ‘toll’ they are likely to avoid it by routing West of the Hebrides, where they are going to be on a lee shore and even further from help in the event of engine, steering or navigational failure.
I agree 100% with Karl on this – it is an unavoidable cost. How it is funded is open to debate, but whether or not to have the facility isn’t. Unfortunately it is not a devolved matter.
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And as the Crown Estate appears not to be a devolved matter, it’s surely right that their Scottish marine taxes should be used to help protect the Scottish marine environment from a pollution disaster.
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An excellent idea – with an irrefutable logic.
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Perfect logic.
Now explain that to the UK minister responsible.
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Logic doesn’t seem to be quite the Lord of the Dance..
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Pass.
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Hi the Toll idea was tongue in cheek…
the rest real enough…seems a drop in the ocean to save a life…how much do they recon it costs a year…? interesting to know what a life is worth in financial terms. Good point Robert Wakeman…I concur.
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Unlikely to see an immediate resolve to this debate – it was always the understanding that the ETV would attend any vessel in difficulty as required. But utilising the ETV under the MCA agreement was a last resort (i.e. a commercial agreement could not be put in place that ensured life/environment and vessel integrity within an appropriate time scale). Where are we now if there is not an ETV and there cannot be a commercial agreement as commercial salvors (although invariably competitive) will now be in a much stronger position to push for lopsided commercial agreements and busy with there own regular paying customers. It would cost in the region of £1.4 – £2m annually to site a suitably sized commercial tug with specialist equipment in the area….. Not a huge amount and there are operators out there who would accommodate such an investment to include cash back if they go about commercial towage operations within an appropriate response area! This would then ensure availability at minimum cost. The current ETVs were not suited to a combination of towing (i.e. harbour/coastal) and therefore unsuitable in many situations (but suitable for they job they were in place to do – tow large tankers to avoid disaster). Modern powerful harbour/coastal tugs fit the bill rather than ocean going tugs.
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And if disaster threatens on a really stormy night in the Minch or off Orkney / Shetland? – wouldn’t a large tug have an advantage then?
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This is all very interesting.
Given the sort of costs you’re talking about to locate a commercial harbour/coastal tug in these waters – and without the further possibility of cash-back if the tug did some commercial ops – how much would this save on the costs quoted by MCA to retain each ETV?
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There is no saving to be had over the removed ETVs from service. The government figures advised that £32m could be saved over 4.5 years by removing the 4 ETVs (circa £1.8m per vessel per year). This appears to be a true cost of operating such capable vessels.
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About 2 million was given to Malawi…THE Scottish Government spent more than £2 million in its aborted attempt to attract a private bidder to build the Borders railway…What is even more amazing is that Edinburgh council have bought 27 trams costing 2m a piece …and don’t have a bloody tramway to put them on..(hysterical laughter as I write this…) The Scottish Executive has already committed to provide up to £500 million for Phase 1a of the project and
CEC a further £45 million. A total of £79 million was spent on the project up to the end of May 2007, which includes £17 million to take the two Bills through the Parliamentary process….(err 17 million…somebody is milking this cow!)
Now they plan to spend 28 million on super fast internet for Edinburgh….And why the hell spend 20million on ‘Modernisation of the prison estate’ folks in prison have done wrong…if they are not happy with their surroundings they have one ooptions…don’t break the law…
What a state of affairs… give me a break.
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You’ve forgotten £2 billion (including associated costs) for building a duplicate Forth road bridge.
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The Northern Isles have retained an ETV and she mobilised to attend this grounded vessel although didn’t render towage support. I know which size of tug I would be happy to see come over the horizon mentally (you are correct) but in the cases of ASTUTE and YEOMAN BONTRUP they were just too large to render any useful towage assistance.
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So have Orkney and Shetland made an independent arrangement to fund an ETV between them? We assume this is Anglina Sovereign, the tug that stood by while MV Flinterspirit was escorted to Stornoway.
Is the two councils who are paying for this service and do you happen to know roughly how much?
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The funding of Anglian Sovereign is under discussion but there has been a commitment to have her stay on station covering the Northern Isles while discussions are ongoing. Presumably the MCA/UK government footing the bill as previous.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-17457235
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I think the £6 million that the Scottish Government has given to the Land Fund for community buy-outs would be better spent providing a permanent ETV tug for the Minch, West Coast and Western Isles.
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I agree fully that an emergency towing capability needs to be retained in this region.
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Why should community buy outs be jeopardised? Go and visit Knoydart, and then tell us that you think the land fund should be sacrificed because the government is incapable of understanding the potential risk of massive environmental damage in the event of a shipwreck – the same government that has better uses for the Crown Estate’s Scottish marine tax revenue than to invest some of it in this safeguard.
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