Comment posted Time for a serious rethink on concessionary travel by Hamish Beaton.
Another slow news day for ForArgyll. Without hard facts this Article’s a rant.
Haven’t ForArgyll run recent favourable articles on West Coast Motors. So did they check their facts with them then?
Recent comments by Hamish Beaton
- 400 Rosneath residents protest in person on Kilcreggan Pier on SPT ferry plans
Noreen
Sorry if I came across as flippant – it was never my intention. Yes you are right in that SPT has been less than effective. Equally, it is important that the MCA say the replacement boat passes muster and the crew have the knowledge and procedures to run the route for commuter traffic.
Robert is right too – directly attacking the SPT will not change very much, the shambles they have got themselves into is perhaps indicative of their lack of expertise and they will simply batten down the hatches until things cool off. As he says there needs to be some form of EU review. The people of Dunoon lost the fight for a direct vehicle ferry which has had consequences for us in the Cowal hinterland. The fact that the Clyde estuary lacks integrated shipping routes is a disaster for us all. It doesn’t make business sense; it doesn’t make economic sense and it doesn’t make people sense. There should be a drive to harness all the expertise available and if I have been flippant, I apologise - 400 Rosneath residents protest in person on Kilcreggan Pier on SPT ferry plans
Jim B
Let’s hope that embarkation is made as simple as possible. The fact that Clydelink has yet to run a trial and or service can only lead to speculation. Should we be comparing one service provider against another, then who do you use as a bench mark? I for one wouldn’t pick the Dunoon ferry, perhaps we should be looking to emulate a Scandinavian or Dutch example as best practice? - 400 Rosneath residents protest in person on Kilcreggan Pier on SPT ferry plans
Interesting to see if the MCA pass this use of boathooks and fast footwork during the berthing milarky. Just run this past me again. At some point a deckhand has to clamber up onto Kilcreggan pier, in a south – southwesterly force 4-6 midwinter with iced up decking and ladder, whilst his mates, for’d and aft, are entertaining the “drooked punters” with some fancy footwork and nifty slight of hand with them fearsome old fashioned boathooks like they have on real BoT sportsdays – and on a 70 foot launch with minimum shelter deck? Says a lot about the planning of this great venture. Bit premature with the P45s at Kilcreggan I think? Sorry, but is all this for real? - Spygate: Russell demands confirmation that investigation will be independent
Robert – check out http://www.ico.gov.uk/complaints/data_protection.aspx
There are procedures in place.
Under the Data Protection Act, those who collect and use personal information have to follow rules of good practice for handling information (called the data protection principles). The Act also gives rights to individuals whose information they collect and use.How do I know if my problem is a data protection problem?
You might have a data protection problem if any of the following apply to you:You have been denied any of your rights, including your right to see the personal information an organisation holds about you.
Personal information about you is used, held or disclosed:
unfairly
for a reason that is not the one it was collected for, or
without proper security.
Personal information about you is:
inadequate, irrelevant or excessive
inaccurate or out of date, or
kept for longer than is necessary.
Before you complain to us
First, tell the organisation concerned and give it an opportunity to put things right. Many data protection problems can be solved quickly without us getting involved. You can call our helpline on 0303 123 1113 for advice to help you to solve the problem.What happens if I cannot solve the problem myself?
If you have contacted the organisation about the problem but have been unable to solve it, we may be able to help.If necessary, we will look into your complaint. If we think the law has been broken, we can give the organisation advice and ask it to solve the problem. In the most serious cases we can order it to do so.
We cannot award you compensation. Our main aim is to get the organisation to change the way it works so that it handles personal information properly in the future.
Supporting evidence
For your complaint to be eligible for further consideration we will usually need you to provide us with supporting information or evidence. - Spygate: Who was ‘John McKinnon’? Was Russell a victim of dirty tricks by a council false persona?
So where do these articles and comments get us? nowhere.
The question to ask is “what do we achieve by what we do”. I guess that ForArgyle now has enough news clippings and comments to suggest that there may have been a breach of the Data Protection Act’s First Principle and that if it gave a copy to each elected Officer and the Council’s Data Protection Officer then A&B Council would need to investigate. If such a breach existed then it (The Council) must inform the Information Commissioners Office; and it is for the Commissioners to conduct an enquiry. So, is anyone going to bell the cat? In all probability – I think not. It will all be punted into the very long grass and yet again the Councillors will return to their petty squabbles and pointless political point scoring. We get the councillors we deserve. And ForArgyll? – Well of course “lets all have a heated debate” – It’s what they do best. Just a bunch of stirrers if you ask me.
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http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-politics/4668-snp-condemn-labours-scaremongering-over-concessionary-bus-travel
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I disagree.. the money paid out on this concession saves the NHS a fortune. By encouraging the elderly to get out and about keeping them mobile means less imput from Doctors and other medical staff.
With day care service costs spiriling better to have people out and about as often as poosible this also encourages mental stimulation. The benefits far outway the costs. Tampering with this concession would be at any politicians cost ,just as we will not forget this latest budget.
I know for a fact that some bus companies are ripping the government off. Always check your ticket and look at the destination!!!!..If not correct send it to the SG Transport office….many have.
Many buses would run half empty without us, better get something than nothing.
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And what about the ‘seniors’ who need to travel daily to work or visit a relative/friend in hospital? I suppose that falls into the ‘obscenely exploitative’ category too.
There are far greater obscene and exploitative ways in which subsidies are used, especially by the wealthy (which includes ‘seniors’). FiTS for renewables for example.
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There are surely two extremes – for example people in rural areas for whom the free bus is a lifeline to the nearest community, and at the opposite extreme people in Glasgow who are tempted to occupy their days swanning around the country at very considerable cost to this scheme.
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Many chronically sick and disabled people who depended on transport from the NHS and Local Authority were told that the concessionary fares system was sufficient to their transport needs. both agencies reduced their transport fleets accordingly.It was negation on their part.
Yes there needs to be a concessionary re-think by the NHS and the 11 or 12 councils that operate the scheme in Strathclyde Region.
They must reinstate the fleets that was in place for therapeutically social and recreational activities.
The result of taxing personal incomes for free universal transport could be the last straw for the uncaring Westminster playboys and playgirls
I do understand the anger if free universal transport for pensioners and the chronically sick ends up being another tax hike by central government. We should have a voice in order to influence the decision makers of the SPTG
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There is a good point here – which is that specifc needs related travel might best be delivered by the services to which folk need access – like the NHS.
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I found the whole article quite baffling.
Some questions . . .
a) Who decides what is sufficient travel and what is excessive? Surely the need to travel is intimately linked to personal circumstances.
b) Who exactly are these ‘endlessly travelling seniors’ using their bus passes in an ‘obscenely exploitative’ manner, and how many of them are there in relation to the total number of bus passes issued?
c) How exactly is this issue related to the alleged stifling of enterprise in Scotland?
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The government is entiteld to decide what is sufficient travel TO SUBSIDISE.
Re (C) – bit of a Doh moment here.
The more Scotland chooses to spend on the periphery of a dependancy culture, the less it will have the capacity to foster the enterprise that alone can lift the country into growth; and the less it will have the ability to maintain and develop the infrastructural efficiency that underpins a confident and confidence inducing economy.
At the moment the Scottish Government is taking every soft option so as to limit any negatives in play when we get to the independence referendum. This is irresponsible and will exact a price whichever way that vote goes.
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Reading the Newsroom article, anyone might think that special buses are laid on for the seniors to ‘obscenely exploit’. Like all bus travellers, they are using scheduled services that have fixed costs.
We should be celebrating the fact that our seniors remain active in society, not downgrade them to indulgent sterotypes.
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Another slow news day for ForArgyll. Without hard facts this Article’s a rant.
Haven’t ForArgyll run recent favourable articles on West Coast Motors. So did they check their facts with them then?
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Not sure how the free travel scheme works, but I presume the bus companies get a fixed amount from the government each time someone uses the service.
In which case, isn’t the scheme helping to subsidise rural transport and keep services viable, as well as providing older people with free transport?
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Not when it’s paid for below cost.
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I could suggest one economy – stop issuing bus passes and ferry cards to second home owners. If you can afford 2 houses when others have none you can afford to pay the full wack. Don’t be mislead into thinking the wealthy do not make full use of them either when it suits them.
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For the last eight years I have used my bus pass EXCLUSIVELY for the 25 mile return journey from Barcaldine to Oban and back by scheduled bus service whenever possible. Translate that total distance into CARBON FOOTPRINT via a Transit van. Surely NOT to provide free transport at the point of use is the ‘obscenity’. Actually, if you are serious about global warming etc then ALL public transport should be free to users. Grr
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An interesting and valid point. This would mean a state service, though – which has value but is not what we have at the moment.
We do not think that it is defensible for the government to require private sector operators to carry concessionary travellers at a loss.
State services of any kind – like the NHS and like education – are a different matter and a different argument.
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Why shouldn’t bus operators make a social contribution? Surely we are ‘all in this together’. And let us not forget that Transport Scotland provides an annual subsidy of £66.5 million to the bus industry, the aim of which is to keep fares at affordable levels and enable bus operators to run services that might not otherwise be commercially viable.
And let’s face it, how much does it actually cost the bus company in reality to have an extra bum on that empty seat? If that seat would otherwise be empty then it is surely better to fill it at a lower fare – something the airlines have understood for many years.
In fact, prior to the introduction of electronic ticketing machines bus companies have been doing very well out of this, being able to present estimates of numbers and fares to the government for remuneration. According to Scottish Executive’s review of the scheme there were £700,000 of inaccurate claims last year and two firms were charged with fraud.
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There are other considerations. The Gov puts a lot of money into public health initiatives and preventative measures to keep seniors engaged, fit and active. This can be viewed as one of the more cost effective of those kinds of measures. Mental health and wellbeing is greatly enhanced by planning to go out, getting out and about etc
The other aspect is the increased footfall in tourist destinations in rural Scotland that you get from more people travelling – not to be sniffed out for fragile rural economies. I know of many seniors who travel because of this who would not be and supplying that extra little bit of income in the place they go to, multiple it a few times and it can make the unsustainable sustainable.
I could go on,,,,,,,,,,,
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Well said Lorna.
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I also do not agree with the view of Forargyll.com and it is obvious that the editor is not nearly 60 years of age. The bus companies currently get 67% of a single full fare. Surely it is better that there are 10 concession card holders on a bus than 1 person paying a single full fare of £2. The bus company would recive £13.40 instead of £2.
Recently on a visit to Dundee I travelled on the Travel Dundee local city bus service. The dearest single fare is £2.10 which is the fare I paid. If I was old enough to have a bus pass Travel Dundee would receive £1.41 (to the nearest penny) from the Scottish Government.
I also noticed an advert on the bus advertising a 10 journey ticket at £14.40 which equates to £1.44 per journey.
If the bus companies are struggling financially they should all stop selling cheap tickets and charge everyone the full fare.
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I’m the only one who thinks that the current scheme is just far too complicated and thus open to abuse? The additional cost involved in actually conveying a passenger will be minuscule compared with the fixed cost of the bus (capital and maintenance) and the driver’s salary. Why does the Government not just negotiate a flat rate with the various bus companies, annually adjusted for inflation, that allows all card carrying seniors to travel free?
Just the initial negotiation, then a monthly doling out of the subsidy. It will save lots of civil servants’ time, administrative overheads at the bus companies and, not to mention, faster passenger boarding times.
Or is this all just too simple?
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