Comment posted Waitrose has £325k on table for Tuesday planning hearing – and opposition rolls in by PBP.
But he did.
PBP also commented
- Don’t know – it was not mentioned today. Don’t suppose Sainsburys could have an interest?
- A long hot day, but full marks to the Helensburgh area public for their active participation.
The right result too, so long as Waitrose are not put off by the vastly increased ‘mitigation payment’.
On a wider stage, Government should be looking at how such payments, which are pure and simple bribery, could be regulated.
- It is about For Argyll itself, which in many respects I admire but which does not seem to have much of a clue about Helensburgh.
This morning at the hearing it was made clear, through various surveys, that thousands were in favour of Waitrose at Colgrain, and that there was a roughly 55-45 split against a pier supermarket.
Yet For Argyll has consistently claimed the opposite in both cases.
Today there is a huge attendance of Waitrose supporters and, so far, six objectors have put their heads above the parapet.
Interestingly, the only person booed this morning was the representative of Helensburgh Retailers Association.
If I was the editor of For Argyll, at this point I would be questioning the quality of the reporting.
- The former Argyll before it was lucky enough to land the cash cow of Helensburgh and District.
- Helensburgh has rejected a supermarket on the pier three times in the past decade. How many more times do you need to hear it?
That being the case, the rest of your argument falls. I am beginning to think we need a For Helensburgh website, leaving you to concentrate on the old Argyll area where you are clearly better informed.
Recent comments by PBP
- Proposed posts for proposed new council coalition administration
Heaven help us — Mars Mulvaney is back. Just typical he did not keep his fellow Tories in the loop.Surely his first job, especially in the light of the utter chaos in the town centre because of the start of the CHORD project works, is to clear up the parking problems in John Street between West Clyde Street and West Princes Street.
Yes, outside the garage where he works.
- One real issue and some strange arguments against Cove Community Wind Farm
Tripe indeed. What makes you think Rosneath, the Gareloch, Cove and Kilcreggan are industrialised landscapes? They all fall into the scenic landscapes and seascapes that you and we all want to protect.We fought off oil rig construction at Portkil. This would be even more obtrusive to far more people and areas, and all for economic benefits which generally are heavily weighted in favour of the commercial interests involved in construction and running of windfarms.
And of course a certain Mr Salmond likes wind farms.
- BID4OBAN to target empty shops
Helensburgh has the same problem, and already this month three more shops have announced closure — all blaming the Council’s business rates.But to my mind the problem is parking. We will not the footfall until Council car parks are free, as in Dumbarton and, I believe, a certain Lochgilphead.
- PS Comet Bicentenary for Helensburgh and Port Glasgow
The link to the Comet website still does not work. - Council suspends Helensburgh CHORD Colquhoun Square redesign
Great start for the new administration and James Robb in particular. The previous proposal for Colquhoun Square was horrendous and would have made the place look like a deserted runway for much of the time. It was also a recipe for traffic and transport chaos.Good luck with the informal consultation. What is needed is a smartening up of what currently exists, most especially the awful and highly dangerous roads and pavements. Do keep the Comet lamps, but some of them need refurbished.
When you have finished all that, make daytime enforcement of the parking regulations in lower John Street a priority.
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Helensburgh has rejected a supermarket on the pier three times in the past decade. How many more times do you need to hear it?
That being the case, the rest of your argument falls. I am beginning to think we need a For Helensburgh website, leaving you to concentrate on the old Argyll area where you are clearly better informed.
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So where did the recent survey majorities FOR a retail development on the pier head come from – as quoted by Sainsburys in the letter we have published?
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Don’t know – it was not mentioned today. Don’t suppose Sainsburys could have an interest?
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PBP – ‘old Argyll area’, care to define what you mean by ‘old’
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The former Argyll before it was lucky enough to land the cash cow of Helensburgh and District.
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I’d like to know PBP if this is your attitude towards For Argyll? or to Argyll itself?
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It is about For Argyll itself, which in many respects I admire but which does not seem to have much of a clue about Helensburgh.
This morning at the hearing it was made clear, through various surveys, that thousands were in favour of Waitrose at Colgrain, and that there was a roughly 55-45 split against a pier supermarket.
Yet For Argyll has consistently claimed the opposite in both cases.
Today there is a huge attendance of Waitrose supporters and, so far, six objectors have put their heads above the parapet.
Interestingly, the only person booed this morning was the representative of Helensburgh Retailers Association.
If I was the editor of For Argyll, at this point I would be questioning the quality of the reporting.
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Apparently, Victoria Halls is currently packed to capacity with many people waiting outside as well to hear the verdict.
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For Argyll don’t seem to understand my area either. Folk here are still waiting to learn the membership make up of the Easdale Island charity, Eilean Eisdeal, and how the money was spent from the Scottish Gas Green Streets award. For Argyll claimed that this information should be in the public domain – so where is it? We seem to have been forgotten or FA aren’t interested in persuing this further. Perhaps they’re not bothered about the rights of folk here, or is it too political?
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Lowry – as you must know, we are a very small team with a huge amount of work to do and we cannot keep absolutely on top of everything.
We haven’t forgotten about this matter and we will be pursuing it.
You gave us a smile at the suggestion that this – or anything – might be ‘too political’ for us. Hardly our MO.
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Copied from URTV’s Facebook page:
Final count is 693 letters of support to the council for Waitrose and 137 letters against, including a petition. There were also 7 miscellaneous letters.
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Same source again – URTV:
The Council Planning Department and Waitrose have both spoken. The Planning Department say that the effects on the town centre could have been grossly underestimated by Waitrose’s retail impact survey and that they are maintaining that they recommend refusal of the application.
Waitrose still believe that the effects on the town centre will be negligible and they can mitigate them. Waitrose spokesperson, Martin Gorman, received a big round of applause for saying Helensburgh is crying out for a good quality food store.
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Be interesting to see whether members choose to reject the advice given to them by the planning department and the justification for that rejection (should it happen)
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We understand that it is practically unheard of for Councillor Danny Kelly, who is chairing the hearing, to overturn the planners’ recommendation. If he were to do so on this occasion, it would be strange.
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But he did.
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Thanks for update CSB. No room at the inn for me at 10.25. Hey ho, should have got there a bit earlier!
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Now lunch time in the Victoria Halls. It is a full house. Looks like it could run into this evening as the previous supermarket application did about 10 years ago.
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I could be wrong. But I think they made an exception for Henry Bros at Colgrain, which was greenbelt outwith the local development plan. That seemed strange at the time. Probably a large brown envelope involved there.
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From URTV again:
30 pro Waitrose representatives have spoken, including Councillor Vivien Dance and Community Councilman Nigel Harman. Now it’s over to the objectors.
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I turned up in time to hear a lady in support of Waitrose say she wanted Waitrose so she could buy pak chow in Helensburgh. That seems to be the level of the debate.
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It is 4.30 and we are now into PPSLC members asking questions before everyone sums up. It could be another hour or so before we have a decision depending on how many questions are asked.
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We cope with bin collections once a week (or even fortnightly) so how about fancy supermarket visits once a week? – a Waitrose on a seagoing barge, serving the west coast – say from Helensburgh to Fort William, stopping off at Dunoon, Rothesay, Campbeltown, Oban, Fort William – and maybe Tobermory and Port Ellen alternate weeks. Just dreaming. At Helensburgh it would tie up at the pier, of course. The supermarket aisles would be cushioned with giant airbags to keep everything shipshape on passage, and maybe even giant gimbals would be effective.
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Great idea – a 21st century Vital Spark!
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Summing up now underway.
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Summing up now complete. Now moving on to the PPSLC members debating the issue before the decision is taken. It looks like it will be an approval but watch this space.
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Bruce Marshall has stated that he will support the application if a competent amendment can be brought forward. David Kinniburgh has stated that he will be doing the same. Robin Currie has stated that he hopes the application will be approved but the mitigation is insufficient. He is looking for an additional £420k in mitigation for various items. Neil McKay also looking to support it if an amendment can be put together but needs more mitigation.
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This could be said to be an almost perfect line up of the numpties. Authoritative? Hardly. But no doubt it will be sufficient, along with a side dish of pak choi.
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I’d like to know what Councillor Currie wanted to do with the extra £420,000.
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Alex McNaughton has also confirmed his support along with Gordon Chalmers. It is now clear that it will be approved if a competent motion / amendment can be put together.
Cllr McAlister has also indicated support along with Cllr Devon, Cllr McMillan and Cllr McQueen.
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In the final straight now. Cllr McCuish has confirmed his support as has Cllr Reay. We only await the views of the Chair.
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Cllr Reay now moving a motion to approve the application. Now reading it out to obtain confirmation if it is competent or not. Now seconded by the Chair – Cllr Kelly.
Application has been approved.
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Pingback: Argyll News: RIP Helensburgh town centre: Waitrose out of town location approved | For Argyll
A long hot day, but full marks to the Helensburgh area public for their active participation.
The right result too, so long as Waitrose are not put off by the vastly increased ‘mitigation payment’.
On a wider stage, Government should be looking at how such payments, which are pure and simple bribery, could be regulated.
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I thought ‘mitigation’ in the context of a supermarket proposal meant meeting the cost of any extra roadworks, pedestrian crossings etc made necessary by the extra traffic generated by the development. I’d like to know if some councillors took a more elastic view of the meaning of the word.
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I’m sure they won’t be put off by the mitigation payment. In all probability there will be negotiations over the purchase price between drum & waitrose. The application was made under two names – Waitrose & Wandering Wild (aka drum). It is highly likely that there is an agreement between drum and waitrose, where waitrose purchase the land subject to planning approval. This allows them to attach caveats re planning gain / mitigation payments. It will probably be drum who take a hit on the price. They’ll be aware that without planning approval their land is worthless. I actually think planning gain is a good thing. Just as long as it reaches the intended parties and not the council coffers, which sadly often happens.
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We need a clear statement from the coumcil of how this mitigation sum was calculated, and how it will be committed.
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I’d like to see the money used to directly improve the retailers units / frontages. I’ve attached a link to the merchant city initiative below, which completely transformed that area.
http://glasgowmerchantcity.net/regeneration.html
I’m pleased Waitrose got their approval. Had Waitrose been rejected, then all that would have happened is a continuation of the current decline of the town centre. That decline is due to the apathy of a lot of shop keepers. Either the shopkeepers take this opportunity to get their fair share of mitigation money to improve the service that they provide. Or they sell up and allow the next generation of shopkeepers to take over. I’m sure like me, the majority of Helensburgh shoppers do not want to soley shop in Waitrose. To me the Waitrose development has always been about a high end outlet recognising the potential and wanting to invest in our town, which will hopefully be a catalyst for further investment in the town centre.
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