Nice to hear that Webcraft thinks that NTA …

Comment posted No Tiree Array campaigners play the Trump card by robtrythall.

Nice to hear that Webcraft thinks that NTA ” may well
have a case ” but NTA has been addressing the issues of environmental and economic damage arising from Scot Govt off shore windfarm proposals,long before D Trump realised there was an issue here.

With respect to Webcraft, NTA is not linking itself to D Trump .

NTA might suggest that Webcraft’S use of word like ” “obnoxious ” and ” claptrap” would suggest that Webcraft may be intolerant of any opinion contrary to his own.

The issues Trump refers to merit national debate . NTA has been asking for that debate. Scotland requires that debate.

Recent comments by robtrythall

  • Tactical conundrums in the Indy foothills
    I think you are wrong when you state “ A vote for independence next week will inevitably see the postponement of the United Kingdom General Election scheduled for May 2015.”

    The provisions of the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 set that parliamentary elections must be held every five years, beginning in 2015. It would require an act of Parliament to postpone the scheduled May 2015 General Election

    Re Trident;- the motion passed @ Holyrood stated Trident to removed within 4 years of Independence. Even with a Yes vote the detailed negotiations to arrive at Salmonds Independence nirvana will take more than his wish list 18months , more likely 3 years according to credible analysis. EU membership is anywhere between 3-5 yrs off. So Trident will be in Scotland for at least another 7 years .

    If a YES then the time line for, and the reality of the outcome, can only be speculative.

    But if it is anything like Scottish Government’s Offshore Renewables timeline it will pushed back a few years, and its reality a shadow of its former self

    However with one week to go the remainder to UK has woken up to a fundamental political reality ie the existing UK political quo is no longer tenable.

    The Hills Are Alive With the Sound of FUK(Federal UK ).

    If Salmond had a scintilla of political nous he would abandon the Independence referendum and enter negotiations, with UK for the creation of FUK

    More immediate reasons for Salmond to abandon the referendum include the latest YOU GOV poll which near as damn it reverses its earlier poll ie it now polls 52 for NO and 48 for YES(excluding ‘undecideds’.)

    This poll, shows fewer ‘undecideds’, therefore the problem for Yes is that, according to YOU GOV, it is running out of Scots to persuade to vote YES.

    However the alarming news for YES this week is the BOE estimate of the costs of Salmond’s currency option.

    Mark Carney, the Bank of England’s Governor, wrote to a Commons committee showing how much reserves are held by countries that use other nation’s currencies in the same way Salmond has suggested Scotland could use the pound.

    Carney’s letter suggested a separate Scotland would have to raise at least £21 billion of sterling reserves or £4,000 per person as it could no longer rely on the Bank of England to print pounds.In extremis this figure could rise to £18,000 per person

    Salmond, faced with:-(1) the flight of banks from Scotland, (2)more expensive shopping at John Lewis and Sainsbury, (3) condemning the Scottish People to accept massive tax hikes to afford Salmond’s currency, and (4) calls from England for a new constitutional settlement, should now reflect on the wisdom of holding this referendum and give some thought to FUK.

    For my part I am escaping for the peace and quiet of Torridon.No radio/no newspapers /no mobile/ no internet, hopefully a referendum free-zone. The only thing that could mar this peace and quiet is if some one has planted a YES on the top of Liathach.

    But I will be back in time to vote, and hopefully wake up to a NO so we can all get our lives back, and a blissful silence with the 3 S’s off the airwaves

  • Latest YouGov poll puts ‘Yes’ ahead
    A week can be a long time in politics.

    This week closes with YOU GOV latest poll which near as damn it reverses its earlier poll

    Based on on online survey carried out between Tuesday and Thursday of this week, YOU GOV puts the No side at 52 and Yes side on 48 per cent,excluding undecideds.

    Based on these poll data, the independence referendum has returned to its earlier equilibrium: a narrowing No lead based on the economics of independence.

    But this poll, shows fewer undecideds, therefore the problem for Yes is that, according to YOU GOV, it is running out of Scots to persuade.

    The most alarming news this week is the BOE estimates of the costs of Salmond’s currency option

    Mark Carney, the Bank of England’s Governor, wrote to a Commons committee showing how much reserves are held by countries that use other nation’s currencies in the same way Salmond has suggested Scotland could use the pound.

    Carney’s letter suggested a separate Scotland would have to raise at least £21 billion of sterling reserves or £4,000 per person as it could no longer rely on the Bank of England to print pounds.

    In extremis this figure could rise to £18,000 per person

    As the week closes, there are increasing calls from England and Wales to create FUK (Federal UK).

    Salmond,faced with the flight of banks from Scotland, shopping at John Lewis and Sainsbury to be more expensive, condemning the Scottish People to accept massive tax hikes to afford its own currency, and calls from England for a new constitutional settlement,should now reflect on the wisdom of holding this referendum

    If Salmond had a scintilla of political nous he would abandon the Independence referendum and enter negotiations, with UK,to create FUK.

  • Argyll and Bute Council: Gold for woodentoppery
    It is very tempting to smile at such ineptitude but is seems to be a wider affliction

    This postal survey came to Tiree at same time as a survey company, retained by Calmac was doing a cold call telephone survey re Calmac services.

    It took 35 minutes to complete. The questions were asinine and bore the hall mark of a theoretical concept of little relevance to Tiree.

    At one stage I had to ask the questioner if he actually knew where Tiree was.

    One is tempted a wry smile at such ineptitude,but these surveys have a significant input to the decision making process re island transport provision, therefore they should be ‘tested’ by the commissioning body prior to circulation, to ensure they are fit for purpose.

  • Why might major businesses move out and what would it mean for Scotland?
    Wullie

    You have a comprehension problem re the Independence White paper even Alex S and Scottish Government do not make the claims you have made .

    The word that SG uses is ” potential ” not “production”

    to keep it simple take offshore wind Scotland has no offshore wind ..and wont have any till 2020 @ earliest and even then that is subject to SSE making the investment decision .

    A production figure you may like is Scotland does produce near as damn it all UK farmed salmon ..but over 75 % of Scottish Fish Farming is owned by Norwegian companies .

  • Why might major businesses move out and what would it mean for Scotland?
    Dont want to disappoint you but this project has been around for years… just the media are too lazy to check the detail and Scottish Govt loves to hype any offshore renewable project

    The following applies_:-
    (1) the detail of the £51mill funding package still has to be finalised of which Uk govt is a major contributor.

    (2) Atlantis , the developer is undergoing shareholder restructuring

    (3) this is for only 4X1.5MW turbines ie this is only a protoype project which MAY lead into the final project as described ..but has a very long road to travel

    (4) Apart from being located in Scotland and subsidised by UK and Scottish tax payers there is absol nowt “Scottish” about this project.

    trust this assists

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34 Responses to Nice to hear that Webcraft thinks that NTA …

  1. I think the No Tiree Array campaigners have a very good case and I wish them every success – but I’m not convinced linking themselves to Trump is the right way to go.

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  2. The NTA campaign may well have a case, but linking themselves to obnoxious lunatics like Trump, promoting climate denial claptrap and generally being insdiscriminate in picking allies and evidence to support their cause is not necessarily helpful.

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    • Nice to hear that Webcraft thinks that NTA ” may well
      have a case ” but NTA has been addressing the issues of environmental and economic damage arising from Scot Govt off shore windfarm proposals,long before D Trump realised there was an issue here.

      With respect to Webcraft, NTA is not linking itself to D Trump .

      NTA might suggest that Webcraft’S use of word like ” “obnoxious ” and ” claptrap” would suggest that Webcraft may be intolerant of any opinion contrary to his own.

      The issues Trump refers to merit national debate . NTA has been asking for that debate. Scotland requires that debate.

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      • Trump is obnoxious and his opinions are claptrap. That means I am intolerant of Donald Trump. It does not mean I am ‘intolerant of any opinion contrary to (my) own’.

        I am slightly alarmed though by groups who have an objection to a development in their own area who then seek to justify that objection by aligning themselves with climate change deniers, renewables rubbishers and similar forces of darkness.

        The inhabitants of Tiree have obvious reason to be concerned by what is a very large industrial development in the waters off the island. There are surely all sorts of reasons for taking the planning process to task in terms of the local environment and economy.

        However, like many other local protest groups suddenly it seems NTA is fighting a ‘huge national scandal’ rather than a local planning issue. All too often, such groups suddenly aren’t content with stopping their local development; now all wind farms are wrong, the entire technology is rubbish and anyway what do you know, there isn’t any CO2 problem.

        No Tiree Array started with the usual statement made by such groups – ‘We are not against renewables per se’ – then went on to explain in fairly reasonable tones why this particular development was unacceptable.
        Nowadays it does sometimes seem, reading the NTA website, that any stick will do to beat the turbines with though.

        Trump is a genuine lunatic, a failed GOP presidential candidate who made a fool of himself shouting for Obama’s birth certificate, a climate change denier, a man who has tried to drive people out of their homes in Aberdeenshire . . . and that’s before we even mention the hair. You do not IMO do yourselves any credit by publishing his idiotic letter to Salmond on your website.
        .

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        • Approval of Off-Shore wind farms is not a simple “local planning issue”.

          Off-shore wind farms are derived from national Government policy. The consenting process is unique. It is executed ,exclusively through a newly created government department,implementing legislation only passed 10 months ago. Local government is not involved. The ultimate consenting authority, in Scotland, is vested with the First Minister.

          The Licencing and Consenting process is advisory,and lacks any mandatory strictures.

          Go to http://www.no-tiree-array.org.uk for a detailed presentation of the process.

          Tiree Array represents 40% of Scottish Government’s 1st phase offshore development. A Government agency has indicated the ” political pressure ” to consent Tiree Array is “immense”.

          In such circumstances NTA raises many serious questions re Scottish Government’s policy. Scottish Government’s answers to date,have,in the main,been platitudinous.

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    • I too think the No Tiree Array lot should be very careful who they are seen to be citing in their campaign. Particularly when you read Trump’s letter and realise that he has made a number of serious errors in what he says, including claiming that the Netherlands has abolished its offshore wind programme which is robustly denied in a letter in today’s Scotsman.
      Ministers and MSPs receiving the NTA’s endorsement of Trump’s letter just days after receiving the diatribe itself, might well feel less than supportive of the NTA.

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  3. If Trump’s a lunatic he’s a clever one – he even got Sir Ian Wood to give him an honorary degree from RGU – but to call him obnoxious is surely being disgustingly polite.

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  4. I don’t know much about the Tiree Array, it may well be excessive in scale. But three miles is more than half-way to the horizon. For comparison here’s a picture of Robin Rigg windfarm in the Solway firth from an elevation of about 90 metres.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/ztephen/3804758609/

    and here’s one from sea level.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/ztephen/4734833837/

    The loss of the sublime open spaces of the Solway was an aesthetic blow of course, but Robin Rigg has a very high level of availability, it just sits out there chugging out electricity in all but the stillest weather.

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  5. I am afraid you are incorrect with your distances – from a height of 90 metres distance to the horizon is almost 24 miles ! Google ‘ No Tiree Array’ and you will find out a lot more – watch the video !

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    • I meant at sea level! Honest. Well, that’s what I get for posting comments without checking everything first.

      http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/15/how-far-away-is-the-horizon/

      This is quite handy. According to Phil’s table, the horizon at 2 metres altitude is nearly 4 miles away. Which makes me wrong, coming and going!

      I certainly will look into the Tiree Array in more detail now; but did you actually look at the pictures? The point I was trying to make is that picture at the top of the article may have exaggerated the “thickness” of the turbines… maybe someone with more time than me should have a go at modelling the Array in Google Earth?

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      • To avoid any further confusion as to what one can see or not see with regard to an offshore wind farm, please refer to SNH’s report Noo 103 ” An Assessent of the Sensitivity of the Scottish Seascape in relation to Windfarms ”

        p13 ” The towers of 5MW turbines are likely to be 5m diameter .If we take 5m as an example then a viewer could theoretically see the tower at 50Km ”

        This report recommends p 14 ;- “… a seaward outer limit of 35km for seascape units .. as a precautionary principle”

        Re Robin Rigg : Its 60 turbines are 3MW /130m high
        minimum 8km off. Tiree is faced with the possibility of 300/6MW or 180/10MW turbines in excess of 200m (600ft), the 1st row of which will be only 5km from shore .

        rgds

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  6. I was wholly against the nuclear option, even when Lovelock highlighted its obvious need. Now, however, with the threat of wind farms, on and offshore, across Argyll and with all the facts about their usefulness/green credentials along with the link to fuel poverty, I think we should stop further windfarm development and rethink the renewables strategy.

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  7. Good man ! ! ! There are about 48 local communities in Scotland fighting against planning applications for useless, expensive wind farms. You can do a google search and come up with loads of them all over the UK. I have a face book page which I try to keep up to date with new developments, if you are interested.

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    • Read about it and see pictures at:
      http://www.tireerenewableenergy.co.uk/

      It says there that it is earning £100,000/annum for the community, but it also says that they have just been allowed on to a higher feed-in tariff, so it could be higher. One can imagine some of the No Tiree brigade being rather shy of saying whether or not they supported it at the time.

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  8. The tragedy is that whether or not we like or dont like Donald Trump his economic arguement is correct and our govenment is positively helping the exploitation of our natural heritage by non local businesses without a proper debate. Our leader just handful of years ago announced that the best thing for Scotland would be to become like Ireland. This was before the Irish bubble burst and whilst he may have been convincing most economists of any worth knew that this was a piece of nonsense. This same intellect has convinced himself that a mass of windfarms is going to deliver green energy and economic strength to Scotland. Again most green enviromentalists have now accepted that wind is not a satisfactory answer to the problem and the economc beneficiaries of the proposed windfarms are the English the Danes the Spainish and a whole heap of other non scots. As for the jobs promised, these are jobs for lawyers and accountants in Edinburgh to push through the legislation and the contracts with the foreign nationals.
    So is Donald right – yes he is. LIke him or hate him he is right. Scotland is going to lose its natural heritage (which brings income to many locals ) for a pipe dream that has not been tested to the rigours of a full debate. Let there be a proper and full public enquiry so that we do not blow a thousand years away on one foolish mans dreams.

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  9. @ Hannah Sutter:

    our govenment is positively helping the exploitation of our natural heritage by non local businesses without a proper debate

    So instead we should allow our energy future to be dictated by one mad-haired self-important foreign businessman with delusions of grandeur, should we?

    I am sure no-one would deny the people of Tiree a say in their future, but they should choose their allies and their arguments carefully.

    I lived in and around Aberdeen for thirty years, and have often walked on the dunes at Balmedie. It’s a bit of a godforsaken place most days with the wind from the North Sea cutting across the dunes and through you like a knife , but it did not deserve to be turned into a playground for wealthy Americans.

    As the oil capital of Europe is is only fitting that Aberdeen become a focus for renewable energy. As for aesthetics – well, there is absolutely nothing to see when you look out across the grey North Sea from Aberdeen, nothing as far as Norway. The placement of eleven turbines offshore on this rather bleak stretch of coast is hardly going to damage an ‘iconic’ view, neither is it going to damage tourism . . . in fact, in this situation and with Aberdeen’s ‘energy capital’ status I would imagine it might even increase visitor numbers to Aberdeen’s rather chilly and unfriendly beach.

    If people can’t tell the difference between the Tiree development and the development planned for Aberdeen then it is difficult for me to credit them with a rational standpoint.

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    • You are right that there is a massive difference between the proposal off Aberdeen and the one proposed off Tiree but the truth is that we need to have a proper debate in the public eye which will show the errors of the policy being pushed through.

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      • @Hannah Sutter:

        we need to have a proper debate in the public eye which will show the errors of the policy being pushed through

        What is the point of having that debate when you, like Mr. Kirk, have already decided the outcome?

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      • Hanna. It all depends on where you get your facts from. You say ” This was before the Irish bubble burst and whilst he may have been convincing most economists of any worth knew that this was a piece of nonsense.”
        Norway, Denmark, Finland, Ireland, even Iceland are all higher in the Legatum Prosperity index than the UK, and there is no reason to believe that an independent Scotland could not be likewise.
        Professor Mike Danson is a respected economist at the University of the West of Scotland. Here is what he says.
        “But then we are fed other myths which, if repeated often enough, are also taken to be self-evident truths. Here in particular I am thinking about the notion that joining an ‘Arc of Prosperity’ of northern Europe would be a disaster because, as we all know, they have been going through a torrid time with exposure to the bitter winds of recession, globalisation and falling living standards. The truth is somewhat different.
        According to the IMF, World Bank, CIA all of the Nordic and Celtic countries continue to have higher living standards than the UK, and Scotland is even below the UK average. Each household would be better off by at least one-third if we had the economic performance of Sweden or Finland, and have far higher incomes if we were in Denmark never mind Norway. And Iceland and Ireland, those two ‘basket cases’ according to the last Labour Government and other unionists, are still well ahead of Scotland.
        Our Nordic neighbours are also the most equal societies on the planet, Scotland within the UK suffering some of the very worst levels of inequity and poverty in the developed world”.
        “In summary: we should be aspiring to join this arc of prosperity, reversing a century and a half of relative decline, and adopting an economic, tax and welfare regime that taxes the rich and protects the poor: high tax Sweden, Denmark and Finland are well ahead of the UK and Scotland in the World Economic Forum’s Global Competitiveness Index. Only through independence can Scotland join that Arc and see poverty and inequality attacked, living standards and quality of life raised.”
        It really is time to raise the tenor of the debate, whether that is for renewables or independence

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  10. “….obnoxious lunatics like Trump
    …..Trump is obnoxious and his opinions are claptrap.
    …..I am intolerant of Donald Trump
    …..Trump is a genuine lunatic, a failed GOP presidential candidate who made a fool of himself shouting for Obama’s birth certificate, a climate change denier, a man who has tried to drive people out of their homes in Aberdeenshire
    …..and that’s before we even mention the hair.
    …..mad-haired self-important foreign businessman with delusions of grandeur”

    Do you, perhaps, think that it may be a good idea to seek help, Webcraft ?

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  11. What is difficult to get across is not necessarily only the appearance of wind farms but the real albatross round the neck is the cost to the consumer. A very comprehensive survey done for farmers in Aberdeenshire suggested that there was a clear profit of £56,000 per 2.3MW turbine per annum for 20 years. For ten turbines that works out at over £11 million and we have over 3500 already build – for what – 3% of our electricity supply.

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  12. The cost to the consumer of renewable subsidies is paid through our electricity bills. According to the regulator Ofgem, wind subsidies added £10 to the average annual bill last year – utterly insignificant compared to the price rise due to the volatility of gas prices.

    US and UK figures both suggest that total onshore wind generation costs per kilowatt-hour will be lower for wind than for coal or nuclear by 2016.

    Facts are chiels that winna ding . . .

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  13. You are way out with the figures you quote – presumably they come from Hollyrood – there is plenty independent info on the net if you search for the truth. Incidentally – another official report just last week that you may wish to body swerve – in it Mr Salmond has been clearly informed that our atmosphere is no ‘cleaner’ now, than it was 10 years ago. So much for Wind Farms and the ‘ green brigade ‘ then Eh !

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  14. Green levies add £80 a year (6%) to the average gas and electricity bill of £1,335, according to the regulator Ofgem’s latest figures. Most of this money supports schemes to increase energy efficiency and decrease fuel poverty, with about £20 supporting the development of renewable energy, including windfarms and solar panels. So wind accounts for around £10, as I said.

    Of course there are other figures available ‘on the internet’, but I prefer to get mine from the independent energy regulator rather than the Daily Mail.

    Holyrood only has one ‘l’ by the way.

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  15. Pingback: Donald Trump has accused First Minister Alex Salmond of seeming “hell bent on destroying Scotland’s coastline” with wind power. | No Tiree Array

  16. If you are ‘green’ then presumably you agree that climate change is happening. Recently we have had the worst storms in living memory (during which incidentally,the Vodafone network was down, as I discovered when trying to make a 999 call. Hmm)For evidence just look at the age of the trees that have been uprooted. So how would the Tiree Array (and the projected CHORD Oban North Pier marina pontoons) look, after, say, a five day Force 12 blow, maybe SW veering NW??? Just a thought.

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    • Perhaps Walsh & Co would volunteer to go down to the North Pier and hang on for dear life to stop their beloved pontoons from floating away in the storm – and perhaps they would float away anyway, complete with human ballast.

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