Comment posted Porkwatch: Why is Connel to get ‘a big new school’ or is the election bacon in the pan? by Simon.
In the past couple of days the ‘Newsieums’ ie the monotonous “‘We have heard’ ‘We understand’ ‘have had reports’ etc etc” have been out in force both in this article and in the ‘Campobeltown Ring and Ride Service article. Unattributable sources (wink, wink). In addition, Newsie has made a real dog’s breakfast with blatant errors, lies and muddled reporting in the £200 million for Health Service in Scotland article.
Hardly surprising that we now begin to see calls for more balance and accuracy in the FA articles.
The poor excuse “We use the formula: ‘We understand…’ it means we have authoritative sources who do not wish to be quoted.” – sounds good but as Interested Bystander points out in the case of the Dunoon Observer your “we understand” article attracted loads of posts – and ultimately a lawyers letter. How good was your “authoritative source” then? As good as the sources for the Connel article? Better? Worse?
Merely repeating innuendo, rumour and hearsay is never going to be good journalism no matter how often you try it.
Simon also commented
- Intersting post Newsie – dedicated it seems to making points that no one raised and answering questions that no one asked. A bit like a record stuck in a groove.
- I see from today’s Oban Times that Achaleven school is to re-open!! And not a word from ‘For Argyll’ about this!
Finger on the pulse?? Ahem, recent events would suggest not….
But just to save Newsie, “doc”, Crazy, Robert et al the bother I’ll tell you shall I who made the announcement that Achaleven was re-opening? (Just a year after it was mothballed and some six months since Newsie (above)poured scorn on the very idea of it re-opening) It was none other than the Prince of Darkness himself – the hater of all of all things rural – especially rural schools – it was none other than Cleland Sneddon….
If you want to read more about it – then you best buy the Oban Times – ’cause you will find nary a mention of it on here…
- “In each case we are satisfied that the sources are authoritative.” – Yeah???
What happened to your authoritative source on the Dunoon Observer story?
Let me guess – you just adopted the ‘publish and be dammned’ approach. Only to retract when you eventually found the email from their lawyers….
- Newsie – quite frankly I find your ‘explanation’ preposterous!
Are you seriously asking readers on here to believe that “the bullying culture” you ascribe to the Council is so “very powerful” that not one indivudual member of Connel Community Council or the Community Council collectively and as a statutory body is prepared to put its head above the parapet and say that ‘Cllr McIntyre said this’?
Rubbish.
And as far as your belated and inadequate ‘explanations’ of your £200 million for Health Service article are comncerned – even you can copy press releases – but try reading the comments and you will see several posters ‘correcting’ more of your errors/lies/mistakes/muddled reporting…..
Recent comments by Simon
- New SNP group leader unable to keep the sheep in the pen
Jnr Tick “So this is where your at Simon” ah the voice of the oppressed…Ignoring your grammar where I am at is in a perfectly justifiable easily defensible position FFS! (as you so eloquently put it…)
The SNP took control of Argyll and Bute a year ago.
They have had three ‘leaders’ in that time.
They have had two resignations (one sneaked back in I hear)
They have fragmented internally, personalised issues beyond belief and behaved like a bunch of spoilt brats rather than a mature political party.
They continue to attack each other publicly
They would apparently rather attack their own than their opposition
They ‘leak’ and ‘spin’ to the media to support their faction and vilify their ‘colleagues’
They are incapable of collegiate performance to the extent that the party national has had to step in.
They have been an unmitigated DISASTER for Argyll and Bute.
And, therefore it is fair to surmise that if we elected these numpties into real national power they would be a disaster there as well.
Now, which part of the above would you take issue with? Where have I lied? Tell me please what a success the SNP have made of their time in Argyll and Bute??
I’m waiting (yawn, yawn….)
Have a nice evening.
- New SNP group leader unable to keep the sheep in the pen
H20 – Oh I don’t have any inside knowledge. Just an observer from afar who can see that the factionalism within the SNP (as exemplified by your own sweet contribution) will run and run.I remember Dave-three-names coming on here thundering on about how he ‘joined the SNP to make things better – not to make them worse’.
Impressive sloganizing from a master. But the question is this – has the election of the SNP as the largest ‘Group’(and I use that word in its widest sense) beena good thing for Argyll and Bute?
Have the SNP captivated the people with their unified vision of the future?
Have the SNP begun to resolve the long-standing and endemic challenges of the area?
Have the SNP shown, by example, that they are no longer a party of protest but a party that is unified and capable of governing Argyll and well as they would govern Scotland?
Or have they been an amateurish embarrassment of egotists unable to deal with their problems internally preferring instead – like their ancestors in the Clans – the futile, suicidal headlong charge into oblivion?
As I said elsewhere – imagine if you had voted for them – what an embarrassment.
- Minutes of today’s meeting of ‘Concerned Councillors’ Group
Neil, whilst you might not care what the SNP do or don’t do the fact remains that right now it’s the SNP that are the problem. They are the largest group and whilst they have indeed been found wanting they remain the problem and that is a problem that requires to be dealt with.The SNP cannot agree amongst themselves, they attack each other in public with increasingly vitriolic language and are quite simply bereft of ideas. To judge just how bereft they are consider there last three leaders – MCCusih, good man honest and upfront and wouldn’t bow to Breslin’s resignation threat; Robb not in the same mould as Roddy , cold, calculating not afraid to be abrasive but smart nevertheless; Sandy Taylor….well Sandy Taylor, the ‘who?’ man of SNP politics in Argyll.
Now to be fair the SNP are attempting to bury the hatchets – but unfortunately still in their ‘colleagues’ heads.
So, the opposition best get their act together and stich up once and for all this pile of puffed-up parodies of politicians that is the SNP in Argyll and Bute.
Gawd’s truth – imagine if ye had voted fir them!!! How embarrassed would ye be now?
- New SNP group leader unable to keep the sheep in the pen
H20 – are you the same H20 that on Cowal Courier is calling for Cllrs McCuish, Robb and Semple to be removed from the SNP for ‘bringing it into disrepute’???So, the SNP’s Civil war and personalised attacks on fellow SNP ‘colleagues’ is still going well then???
Mmmm?
- New SNP group leader unable to keep the sheep in the pen
Well if this is all idle gossip what’s the real story then?Peace has broken out and the SNP are all unified once again?
You have a(nother) Leader you can all unite around?
There will be no more factionalism?
You will work for the benefit of the people rather than yourselves?
you will no longer sneak-off to the media leaking stories against your particular SNP colleagues/bogeyman or bogeywomen or describe in the press your fellow SNP Cllrs as “traitors” and “duplicitous” ?
Any of that true??
Or are you like Anne are you just claiming to be in the loop ??
Mmmm?
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You have to laugh!
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Just fired in a F.O.I. to see what story we get.
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Have you asked Duncan MacIntyre ?
sounds like hes looking for votes as he realises hes finished come May
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Newsroom – as you obviously didn’t turn up to the community council meeting, why didn’t you ring Duncan MacIntyre and ask him? Then he could have told you what he said and saved you the bother running yet another flier.
From now on, I’m not going to bother reading anything that starts ‘We have heard’ ‘We understand’ ‘have had reports’ etc etc – it simply means you haven’t checked it out.
Facts, not rumour, are the basis of good reporting.
Dare one mention the Dunoon Observer?
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Interested bystander makes a good point: why not give Cllr McIntyre a ring and ask him for clarification. If it is true then this is a good story but if it is just hearsay then it isn’t worth commenting on.
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For Interested Bystander and Dr Douglas Mackenzie:
This is not hearsay. we have confirmed that this is what Councillor Macintyre said at the meeting.
When we use the formula: ‘We understand…’ it means we have authoritative sources who do not wish to be quoted.
This relates centrally to the culture of retribution this council administration has bred. It is profoundly unhealthy and it is very powerful.
It is pointless to enquire of Councillor Macintyre since, as was shown during the school closures saga, he has a pragmatic relationship with the facts.
In that case, in attempting to persuade his colleague, Councillor Devon, to vote FOR the closure proposals, he offered her ‘information;’ he knew to be false, namely that the schools in her area had asked to go to consultation. This could not have been further from the truth.Fortunately he was overheard by the representative of one of the schools in question, who immediately put Councillor Devon straight.
Councillor Macintyre’s conduct in the ‘consideration of the Oban Bay Transit Marina proposal bears equally little scrutiny.
However, as with anyone, Councillor Macintyre, if he wishes to claim he did not give this information to the Connel meeting, is welcome to do so here.
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In the past couple of days the ‘Newsieums’ ie the monotonous “‘We have heard’ ‘We understand’ ‘have had reports’ etc etc” have been out in force both in this article and in the ‘Campobeltown Ring and Ride Service article. Unattributable sources (wink, wink). In addition, Newsie has made a real dog’s breakfast with blatant errors, lies and muddled reporting in the £200 million for Health Service in Scotland article.
Hardly surprising that we now begin to see calls for more balance and accuracy in the FA articles.
The poor excuse “We use the formula: ‘We understand…’ it means we have authoritative sources who do not wish to be quoted.” – sounds good but as Interested Bystander points out in the case of the Dunoon Observer your “we understand” article attracted loads of posts – and ultimately a lawyers letter. How good was your “authoritative source” then? As good as the sources for the Connel article? Better? Worse?
Merely repeating innuendo, rumour and hearsay is never going to be good journalism no matter how often you try it.
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Newsroom is correct to say that Cllr McIntyre has shown himself to be a stranger to the truth and duplicitous in character. Given that I would agree that asking him for confirmation is largely pointless as his response would suit the audience rather than the reality.
However maybe it would be worth e-mailing this article to him directly and asking if we would like to offer comment on it as if is aware of it and remains silent then it would suggest the article is not far off the mark.
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The article is hearsay:
hear·say (hîrs)
n.
1. Unverified information heard or received from another; rumor.
2. Law Evidence based on the reports of others rather than the personal knowledge of a witness and therefore generally not admissible as testimony.
The article may truly represent what people at the meeting thought that Cllr MacIntyre said (and I have no reason to doubt that) and what they thought he said may in fact be what he said (though I think we are all well aware of cases where this is not the case). To make it more than hearsay requires either a direct quote from someone at the meeting or confirmation from the man himself.
Without that we are left with just the probability that Mr MacIntyre said something about a new school at Connel but with no insight as to why he said it. If you ask Mr MacIntyre to confirm what he said and why then this at least takes us forward regardless of how much credence we give to his words.
I’m intrigued by the story but need a bit more substantiation and insight before I am going to pay much attention to it.
On a wider note, most of us here like For Argyll (and we forgive the typos). We like the commentary, we also like gossip and insight but most of all we like accuracy. FA’s credibility depends on getting the facts right. After all, you don’t want to end up with the same degree of credibility that the Council’s school closure proposals managed!
Sometimes it is worth digging just a bit deeper so as to get a great story rather than just an interesting one.
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I realise FA is a blog, not a news website, and that comment is your stock in trade, but if you are going to pass something off as a news story and not merely tittle-tattle, you must surely do the basics – and that means checking facts and getting all sides of a story before you publish. Merely saying someone can comment if they wish after a story has gone live is just not good enough.
You seem to have a pragmatic approach to the principles of journalism.
I, and perhaps others who enjoy the debate, would feel better about joining in if best journalistic practice was adhered to.
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For Simon: The facts in the report on the £200 million for health projects across Scotland came direct from the government information service.
This does not necessarily say they are correct – but it is reasonable to assume, for the time being anyway, that they are reliable.
When we use the ‘We understand…’ formula, we know exactly who are sources are. They have disclosed themselves to us or they are people whom we have approached directly.
In each of these cases,for reasons we understand, they wish not to be attributed. In each case we are satisfied that the sources are authoritative.
In the bullying culture many work and live in, the release of important information in strict confidence is the only way the public are ever going to learn a lot of what they need to know. And there are no circumstances in which we would betray a source.
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Newsie – quite frankly I find your ‘explanation’ preposterous!
Are you seriously asking readers on here to believe that “the bullying culture” you ascribe to the Council is so “very powerful” that not one indivudual member of Connel Community Council or the Community Council collectively and as a statutory body is prepared to put its head above the parapet and say that ‘Cllr McIntyre said this’?
Rubbish.
And as far as your belated and inadequate ‘explanations’ of your £200 million for Health Service article are comncerned – even you can copy press releases – but try reading the comments and you will see several posters ‘correcting’ more of your errors/lies/mistakes/muddled reporting…..
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“In each case we are satisfied that the sources are authoritative.” – Yeah???
What happened to your authoritative source on the Dunoon Observer story?
Let me guess – you just adopted the ‘publish and be dammned’ approach. Only to retract when you eventually found the email from their lawyers….
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I see from today’s Oban Times that Achaleven school is to re-open!! And not a word from ‘For Argyll’ about this!
Finger on the pulse?? Ahem, recent events would suggest not….
But just to save Newsie, “doc”, Crazy, Robert et al the bother I’ll tell you shall I who made the announcement that Achaleven was re-opening? (Just a year after it was mothballed and some six months since Newsie (above)poured scorn on the very idea of it re-opening) It was none other than the Prince of Darkness himself – the hater of all of all things rural – especially rural schools – it was none other than Cleland Sneddon….
If you want to read more about it – then you best buy the Oban Times – ’cause you will find nary a mention of it on here…
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As you seem to have read the Oban Times I take it you read that council staff were afraid for their jobs or does that not bother you.
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Going back a bit now “Simon”!
I’m not sure where you discern Newsroom scorning Achaleven ever re-opening. Are you confusing this with her scepticism about a “big new school”?
Since we are on revisionism, events have shown that Newsrooms rendition of the meeting detailed above turned out to be entirely accurate despite your scepticism on the issue.
Mr Sneddon did indeed announce Achaleven would re-open for business and if you read the story carefully you will see why: the parents in Connel have a statutory right to send their children to Achaleven as the school was never closed. Neery a thing Mr Sneddon could do except grin and bear it.
My congratulations to the parents and community in Connel for getting their act together to save Achaleven. I look forward very much to seeing the school’s roll and reputation built once more. And who knows: maybe we will see a new school in Connel some day so as to accommodate the increasing pupil population in the area that will follow the new housing planned for the Dunbeg corridor.
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Achaleven School has not reopened by the agency of the present council administration and its officers.
Cleland Sneddon did not even claim this to be the case.
He made it clear that the school has reopened only because the parents of Connell asked for this – a request which procedurally must be granted provided they could deliver a viable minimum starter pack of pupils – which they have done and with more in the pipeline.
Achaleven was only closed because of the utter failure of the council even to attempt to address a serious failure in relations between its head teacher and the local community. The result of this was that all of the parents chose to send their substantial total number of children elsewhere.
This administration was very happy to let Achaleven School die, a school which needs relatively little to bring it back up to decent operational standards.
This article is headed ‘Porkwatch’. The relevance of that heading remains the central issue. It can be no coincidence that this decision has been processed at this stage, within days of the election – which will be the reason why Cleland Sneddon was so uncharacteristically careful to claim no credit for himself and his bosses.
Councillor Macintyre attempted to deceive the local community on the issue of their school, as this article records.
He is now fighting for fourth preference votes in this very constituency, in an attempt to survive the election on 3rd May.
‘Porkwatch’ is the name of the game, keeping an eye open for ‘pork barrel politics’ – the game of favours, promises and treats that traditionally keeps poor council administrations in power.
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Intersting post Newsie – dedicated it seems to making points that no one raised and answering questions that no one asked. A bit like a record stuck in a groove.
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We’d have thought it obvious that a part of any decent news service’s primary job is to make points no one else raises and to ask and answer questions no one else asked.
And there are some tracks that have to be replayed so that no one forgets the rap.
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