Comment posted Waitrose has £325k on table for Tuesday planning hearing – and opposition rolls in by gd.
I could be wrong. But I think they made an exception for Henry Bros at Colgrain, which was greenbelt outwith the local development plan. That seemed strange at the time. Probably a large brown envelope involved there.
gd also commented
- I’d like to see the money used to directly improve the retailers units / frontages. I’ve attached a link to the merchant city initiative below, which completely transformed that area.
http://glasgowmerchantcity.net/regeneration.html
I’m pleased Waitrose got their approval. Had Waitrose been rejected, then all that would have happened is a continuation of the current decline of the town centre. That decline is due to the apathy of a lot of shop keepers. Either the shopkeepers take this opportunity to get their fair share of mitigation money to improve the service that they provide. Or they sell up and allow the next generation of shopkeepers to take over. I’m sure like me, the majority of Helensburgh shoppers do not want to soley shop in Waitrose. To me the Waitrose development has always been about a high end outlet recognising the potential and wanting to invest in our town, which will hopefully be a catalyst for further investment in the town centre.
- I’m sure they won’t be put off by the mitigation payment. In all probability there will be negotiations over the purchase price between drum & waitrose. The application was made under two names – Waitrose & Wandering Wild (aka drum). It is highly likely that there is an agreement between drum and waitrose, where waitrose purchase the land subject to planning approval. This allows them to attach caveats re planning gain / mitigation payments. It will probably be drum who take a hit on the price. They’ll be aware that without planning approval their land is worthless. I actually think planning gain is a good thing. Just as long as it reaches the intended parties and not the council coffers, which sadly often happens.
- Thanks for update CSB. No room at the inn for me at 10.25. Hey ho, should have got there a bit earlier!
Recent comments by gd
- Candidate response to Argyll Rural Schools Network
I’m not sure of the outward placing request numbers of JLB and can only speak from the perspective of a parent with children at Hermitage Primary. I know Hermitage has always had a number of primary 1 placing requests from outwith the catchment area, because of it’s reputation and from what I’ve heard this year’s future primary 1 is in line with the norm. But it is the huge influx of JLB pupils to Hermitage at all levels over the past 6 months that is particularly alarming. A new primary 6 class had to be created at Hermitage last term to cope with the additional students and seemingly JLB had a composite primary 2/3 class that is no more. Just from chatting to mums at the school gates, I know of 20 kids who have transferred to Hermitage from JLB and I’m sure that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Thankfully Hermitage is a well run school and seems to be coping with the challenge at the moment. But that is purely down to the outstanding leadership of the head teacher.
The fact that a fairly large Helensburgh school is failing so spectacularly, clearly conflicts with Argyll & Bute’s theory that bigger is better. - Candidate response to Argyll Rural Schools Network
Sadly it’s not just the pupils of rural schools who are treated with disregard by Argyll & Bute Council. John Logie Baird Primary is a school in crisis. There has been no head teacher for some time, despite advertising the post 9 months ago. As a result the school is in a complete downward spiral. This has resulted in a mass exodus of pupils to other schools, which seem to be overwhelmed, with Hermitage Primary having to create a whole new class to cope. I’m astonished that the area’s councillor, Ellen Morton, in her capacity as spokesperson for education and lifelong learning has not intervened. - Dame Ellen invites…
Shock horror. Hold the front page – “leaving do organised for colleague.” Such emails are sent the length and breadth of the country everyday. - Devo Plus: enter the Trojan Horse
Kats Comments
At 85p an hour you shouldn’t be paying any tax. Time to get yourself a new accountant and then you won’t have to rant like a loon about where your taxes are best spent.
I too am self employed, with all the drawbacks of no sick pay, annual leave etc. But I recognise that paying tax is to contribute to many different aspects of society. Some benefit me personally, others don’t. But that’s the price we pay to be part of society.
To saddle students with tuition fees is completely unfair. Especially when the Westminster baby boomers, who introduced the loans benifited greatly from free university tuition, with many claiming student grants and housing benefit. Personally I had to work until 1 am every night (fortunately at more than 85p an hour) to pay the rent during my 7 year course and still had a huge student loan following graduation, that took many years to pay off. - Helensburgh retailers full of positivity – for town centre Waitrose
If memory serves me right, Brighton doesn’t have a supermarket on the peir – and it is a fantastic and vibrant seaside town with several happy shopkeepers. There are other ways to regenerate town centres and I think the latest images of the swimming pool by Hoskins is a huge step in the right direction.
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Helensburgh has rejected a supermarket on the pier three times in the past decade. How many more times do you need to hear it?
That being the case, the rest of your argument falls. I am beginning to think we need a For Helensburgh website, leaving you to concentrate on the old Argyll area where you are clearly better informed.
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So where did the recent survey majorities FOR a retail development on the pier head come from – as quoted by Sainsburys in the letter we have published?
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Don’t know – it was not mentioned today. Don’t suppose Sainsburys could have an interest?
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PBP – ‘old Argyll area’, care to define what you mean by ‘old’
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The former Argyll before it was lucky enough to land the cash cow of Helensburgh and District.
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I’d like to know PBP if this is your attitude towards For Argyll? or to Argyll itself?
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It is about For Argyll itself, which in many respects I admire but which does not seem to have much of a clue about Helensburgh.
This morning at the hearing it was made clear, through various surveys, that thousands were in favour of Waitrose at Colgrain, and that there was a roughly 55-45 split against a pier supermarket.
Yet For Argyll has consistently claimed the opposite in both cases.
Today there is a huge attendance of Waitrose supporters and, so far, six objectors have put their heads above the parapet.
Interestingly, the only person booed this morning was the representative of Helensburgh Retailers Association.
If I was the editor of For Argyll, at this point I would be questioning the quality of the reporting.
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Apparently, Victoria Halls is currently packed to capacity with many people waiting outside as well to hear the verdict.
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For Argyll don’t seem to understand my area either. Folk here are still waiting to learn the membership make up of the Easdale Island charity, Eilean Eisdeal, and how the money was spent from the Scottish Gas Green Streets award. For Argyll claimed that this information should be in the public domain – so where is it? We seem to have been forgotten or FA aren’t interested in persuing this further. Perhaps they’re not bothered about the rights of folk here, or is it too political?
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Lowry – as you must know, we are a very small team with a huge amount of work to do and we cannot keep absolutely on top of everything.
We haven’t forgotten about this matter and we will be pursuing it.
You gave us a smile at the suggestion that this – or anything – might be ‘too political’ for us. Hardly our MO.
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Copied from URTV’s Facebook page:
Final count is 693 letters of support to the council for Waitrose and 137 letters against, including a petition. There were also 7 miscellaneous letters.
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Same source again – URTV:
The Council Planning Department and Waitrose have both spoken. The Planning Department say that the effects on the town centre could have been grossly underestimated by Waitrose’s retail impact survey and that they are maintaining that they recommend refusal of the application.
Waitrose still believe that the effects on the town centre will be negligible and they can mitigate them. Waitrose spokesperson, Martin Gorman, received a big round of applause for saying Helensburgh is crying out for a good quality food store.
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Be interesting to see whether members choose to reject the advice given to them by the planning department and the justification for that rejection (should it happen)
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We understand that it is practically unheard of for Councillor Danny Kelly, who is chairing the hearing, to overturn the planners’ recommendation. If he were to do so on this occasion, it would be strange.
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But he did.
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Thanks for update CSB. No room at the inn for me at 10.25. Hey ho, should have got there a bit earlier!
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Now lunch time in the Victoria Halls. It is a full house. Looks like it could run into this evening as the previous supermarket application did about 10 years ago.
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I could be wrong. But I think they made an exception for Henry Bros at Colgrain, which was greenbelt outwith the local development plan. That seemed strange at the time. Probably a large brown envelope involved there.
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From URTV again:
30 pro Waitrose representatives have spoken, including Councillor Vivien Dance and Community Councilman Nigel Harman. Now it’s over to the objectors.
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I turned up in time to hear a lady in support of Waitrose say she wanted Waitrose so she could buy pak chow in Helensburgh. That seems to be the level of the debate.
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It is 4.30 and we are now into PPSLC members asking questions before everyone sums up. It could be another hour or so before we have a decision depending on how many questions are asked.
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We cope with bin collections once a week (or even fortnightly) so how about fancy supermarket visits once a week? – a Waitrose on a seagoing barge, serving the west coast – say from Helensburgh to Fort William, stopping off at Dunoon, Rothesay, Campbeltown, Oban, Fort William – and maybe Tobermory and Port Ellen alternate weeks. Just dreaming. At Helensburgh it would tie up at the pier, of course. The supermarket aisles would be cushioned with giant airbags to keep everything shipshape on passage, and maybe even giant gimbals would be effective.
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Great idea – a 21st century Vital Spark!
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Summing up now underway.
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Summing up now complete. Now moving on to the PPSLC members debating the issue before the decision is taken. It looks like it will be an approval but watch this space.
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Bruce Marshall has stated that he will support the application if a competent amendment can be brought forward. David Kinniburgh has stated that he will be doing the same. Robin Currie has stated that he hopes the application will be approved but the mitigation is insufficient. He is looking for an additional £420k in mitigation for various items. Neil McKay also looking to support it if an amendment can be put together but needs more mitigation.
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This could be said to be an almost perfect line up of the numpties. Authoritative? Hardly. But no doubt it will be sufficient, along with a side dish of pak choi.
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I’d like to know what Councillor Currie wanted to do with the extra £420,000.
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Alex McNaughton has also confirmed his support along with Gordon Chalmers. It is now clear that it will be approved if a competent motion / amendment can be put together.
Cllr McAlister has also indicated support along with Cllr Devon, Cllr McMillan and Cllr McQueen.
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In the final straight now. Cllr McCuish has confirmed his support as has Cllr Reay. We only await the views of the Chair.
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Cllr Reay now moving a motion to approve the application. Now reading it out to obtain confirmation if it is competent or not. Now seconded by the Chair – Cllr Kelly.
Application has been approved.
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Pingback: Argyll News: RIP Helensburgh town centre: Waitrose out of town location approved | For Argyll
A long hot day, but full marks to the Helensburgh area public for their active participation.
The right result too, so long as Waitrose are not put off by the vastly increased ‘mitigation payment’.
On a wider stage, Government should be looking at how such payments, which are pure and simple bribery, could be regulated.
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I thought ‘mitigation’ in the context of a supermarket proposal meant meeting the cost of any extra roadworks, pedestrian crossings etc made necessary by the extra traffic generated by the development. I’d like to know if some councillors took a more elastic view of the meaning of the word.
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I’m sure they won’t be put off by the mitigation payment. In all probability there will be negotiations over the purchase price between drum & waitrose. The application was made under two names – Waitrose & Wandering Wild (aka drum). It is highly likely that there is an agreement between drum and waitrose, where waitrose purchase the land subject to planning approval. This allows them to attach caveats re planning gain / mitigation payments. It will probably be drum who take a hit on the price. They’ll be aware that without planning approval their land is worthless. I actually think planning gain is a good thing. Just as long as it reaches the intended parties and not the council coffers, which sadly often happens.
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We need a clear statement from the coumcil of how this mitigation sum was calculated, and how it will be committed.
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I’d like to see the money used to directly improve the retailers units / frontages. I’ve attached a link to the merchant city initiative below, which completely transformed that area.
http://glasgowmerchantcity.net/regeneration.html
I’m pleased Waitrose got their approval. Had Waitrose been rejected, then all that would have happened is a continuation of the current decline of the town centre. That decline is due to the apathy of a lot of shop keepers. Either the shopkeepers take this opportunity to get their fair share of mitigation money to improve the service that they provide. Or they sell up and allow the next generation of shopkeepers to take over. I’m sure like me, the majority of Helensburgh shoppers do not want to soley shop in Waitrose. To me the Waitrose development has always been about a high end outlet recognising the potential and wanting to invest in our town, which will hopefully be a catalyst for further investment in the town centre.
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