Comment posted 400 Rosneath residents protest in person on Kilcreggan Pier on SPT ferry plans by Hamish Beaton.
Noreen
Sorry if I came across as flippant – it was never my intention. Yes you are right in that SPT has been less than effective. Equally, it is important that the MCA say the replacement boat passes muster and the crew have the knowledge and procedures to run the route for commuter traffic.
Robert is right too – directly attacking the SPT will not change very much, the shambles they have got themselves into is perhaps indicative of their lack of expertise and they will simply batten down the hatches until things cool off. As he says there needs to be some form of EU review. The people of Dunoon lost the fight for a direct vehicle ferry which has had consequences for us in the Cowal hinterland. The fact that the Clyde estuary lacks integrated shipping routes is a disaster for us all. It doesn’t make business sense; it doesn’t make economic sense and it doesn’t make people sense. There should be a drive to harness all the expertise available and if I have been flippant, I apologise
Hamish Beaton also commented
- Jim B
Let’s hope that embarkation is made as simple as possible. The fact that Clydelink has yet to run a trial and or service can only lead to speculation. Should we be comparing one service provider against another, then who do you use as a bench mark? I for one wouldn’t pick the Dunoon ferry, perhaps we should be looking to emulate a Scandinavian or Dutch example as best practice? - Interesting to see if the MCA pass this use of boathooks and fast footwork during the berthing milarky. Just run this past me again. At some point a deckhand has to clamber up onto Kilcreggan pier, in a south – southwesterly force 4-6 midwinter with iced up decking and ladder, whilst his mates, for’d and aft, are entertaining the “drooked punters” with some fancy footwork and nifty slight of hand with them fearsome old fashioned boathooks like they have on real BoT sportsdays – and on a 70 foot launch with minimum shelter deck? Says a lot about the planning of this great venture. Bit premature with the P45s at Kilcreggan I think? Sorry, but is all this for real?
Recent comments by Hamish Beaton
- Time for a serious rethink on concessionary travel
Another slow news day for ForArgyll. Without hard facts this Article’s a rant.
Haven’t ForArgyll run recent favourable articles on West Coast Motors. So did they check their facts with them then? - Spygate: Russell demands confirmation that investigation will be independent
Robert – check out http://www.ico.gov.uk/complaints/data_protection.aspx
There are procedures in place.
Under the Data Protection Act, those who collect and use personal information have to follow rules of good practice for handling information (called the data protection principles). The Act also gives rights to individuals whose information they collect and use.How do I know if my problem is a data protection problem?
You might have a data protection problem if any of the following apply to you:You have been denied any of your rights, including your right to see the personal information an organisation holds about you.
Personal information about you is used, held or disclosed:
unfairly
for a reason that is not the one it was collected for, or
without proper security.
Personal information about you is:
inadequate, irrelevant or excessive
inaccurate or out of date, or
kept for longer than is necessary.
Before you complain to us
First, tell the organisation concerned and give it an opportunity to put things right. Many data protection problems can be solved quickly without us getting involved. You can call our helpline on 0303 123 1113 for advice to help you to solve the problem.What happens if I cannot solve the problem myself?
If you have contacted the organisation about the problem but have been unable to solve it, we may be able to help.If necessary, we will look into your complaint. If we think the law has been broken, we can give the organisation advice and ask it to solve the problem. In the most serious cases we can order it to do so.
We cannot award you compensation. Our main aim is to get the organisation to change the way it works so that it handles personal information properly in the future.
Supporting evidence
For your complaint to be eligible for further consideration we will usually need you to provide us with supporting information or evidence. - Spygate: Who was ‘John McKinnon’? Was Russell a victim of dirty tricks by a council false persona?
So where do these articles and comments get us? nowhere.
The question to ask is “what do we achieve by what we do”. I guess that ForArgyle now has enough news clippings and comments to suggest that there may have been a breach of the Data Protection Act’s First Principle and that if it gave a copy to each elected Officer and the Council’s Data Protection Officer then A&B Council would need to investigate. If such a breach existed then it (The Council) must inform the Information Commissioners Office; and it is for the Commissioners to conduct an enquiry. So, is anyone going to bell the cat? In all probability – I think not. It will all be punted into the very long grass and yet again the Councillors will return to their petty squabbles and pointless political point scoring. We get the councillors we deserve. And ForArgyll? – Well of course “lets all have a heated debate” – It’s what they do best. Just a bunch of stirrers if you ask me. - Spygate: Who was ‘John McKinnon’? Was Russell a victim of dirty tricks by a council false persona?
lets separate the politics from the use of computers at work. There are essentially 3 areas of control to which government, public bodies and the vast majority of companies would agree on.
They expect their employees to use a degree of censure when using computers. The word used is “reasonableness”. They expect the computer tool to be used for their business. The odd personal email and scan of the Internet is acceptable, as long as it doesn’t interfere with work. Most organisations circulate reinforcing information of dos and don’ts at regular intervals; Next is systems – most organisation go to some length to protect their systems – my organisation for example blocks certain websites and deals with attachments to emails in a set manner for the safety of its users and systems. My lead team has automatic rights to examine all email correspondence – indeed it is the way the organisation manages holiday cover – my boss can scan my emails and look at my diary – its not secretive – its the way we work. Personal stuff is handled by gmail; Data protection – all companies that gather data must have a prepared methodology and statements about who, what, when, how, why and for how long and how they destroy the data they gather from and give to.
A&B Council will have a nominated Data Compliance Officer. Their job is to ensure that the Council and its employees comply with the Data Protection Act and its six (or is it eight) principles and that data is managed for and by its clients (us) in compliance with the Act, both legally and in the spirit of the law.
All staff, officers and contractors working on behalf of A&B Council therefore have to operate ultimately within the Data Protection Act’s framework – there is no wriggle room. That’s the way it is.
So if an employee, officer or contractor does any computer presentation from which the inference is that there may perhaps have been a breach of Council’s data caputure and use policy or a breach of the principles of the Act then any such alleged breach must be investigated by the Council’s Data Compliance Officer. I would have thought that sending off newspaper clippings and a covering note to both the Data Compliance officer and Data Protection people in Edinburgh or London would see the start of exposing who did what to whom. Or have I missed the point?
Late addition – Argyll and Bute Council is registered under the Data Protection Act 1998 and as a data controller (notification number Z5909574), the register entry can be inspected at the Information Commissioners Website. http://www.ico.gov.uk/for_organisations.aspx
[What does “fair processing” mean?
The first data protection principle requires you to process personal data fairly and lawfully. Ensuring fairness in everything you do with people’s personal details is, in our view, central to complying with your duties under the Data Protection Act. In practice, it means that you must:
have legitimate reasons for collecting and using the personal data;
not use the data in ways that have unjustified adverse effects on the individuals concerned;
be open and honest about how you intend to use the data, and give individuals appropriate privacy notices when collecting their personal data;
handle people’s personal data only in ways they would reasonably expect; and
make sure you do not do anything unlawful with the data.
Fairness generally requires you to be transparent – clear and open with individuals about how their information will be used. Transparency is always important, but especially so in situations where individuals have a choice about whether they wish to enter into a relationship with you. Assessing whether information is being processed fairly depends partly on how it is obtained. In particular, if anyone is deceived or misled when the information is obtained, then this is unlikely to be fair. - Notes on Guidance from the Information Commissioners Office] - Spygate: unholy mess in the bunker but Council Leader focuses on petty score-settling
This story is being driven to who knows where. The data protection act has a set of defining principle to which all organisations must adhere to. In fact, the Council will have had to sign up and disclose the type of information they collect and how it is managed. If an employee breaches the Act then the Council and employee are both guilty of a breach. Check out http://www.ico.gov.uk/for_organisations/data_protection/topic_guides/privacy_impact_assessment.aspx So who is going to bell the cat? Come on For Argyll you will have signed up to the act and the data principles – Point people in the right direction – explain how it works, what are the remedies?
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Although the tender documents did not specify the need for a new-build vessel, the problem for SPT is that the report that went to the Operations Committee on 20 January stated that the price from Clydelink included a new-build vessel.
The minutes of that meeting confirm that the contract was awarded to Clydelink “based on the provision of a new-build 60 seat vessel”. The press release issued by SPT on the same day stated that Clydelink would be providing a new-build vessel.
Although I have continued to argue with SPT that the contract with Clydelink should now be cancelled and retendered as Clydelink are failing to comply with the decision of the Operations Committee, SPT continue to stick their heads in the sand on this issue. How we now end up with a 16 year old vessel is beyond me.
Along with other community representatives, we will continue to pursue this matter in an attemp to have a full investigation into the way that SPT have mishandled this issue.
I am now aware that the Island Princes has been moved from Rhu Marina to Silver’s Marine yard at Rosneath and is now out of the water in the yard. It is assumed that this is to allow part of the survey work to be carried out prior to any Passenger Certificate being issued by MCA Greenock.
We were informed by SPT that the alternative vessel was due to arrive yesterday although we were not given any details relating to its name etc. This vessel was to be used on the route if the Island Princes was not available.
I was recently informed by my sources that Clydelink had been trying to obtain a ferry from Ireland to operate on the Gourock – Kilcreggan route. This information appears to have been good as I viewed the MV Cailin Oir in the Gareloch today, moored just to the north of Silver’s yard. This vessel arrived in the Clyde yesterday.
I believe that it arrived from Ireland where it was up for sale at £310,000. I am told that this was the Cape Clear Island Ferry in West Cork. It was licensed to carry 72 passengers. It was built in 1999 and has two John Deere engines. It is 50 foot in length and has a beam of 17 feet and a draft of 5 feet. I believe that this is the alternative vessel that SPT have referred to in the latest Q&A document.
I have now asked MCA Greenock if they can provide me with information on any Passenger Certificates that this vessel currently holds to operate on the Clyde or any application that has been submitted to them for such a certificate.
It would certainly appear that this alternative vessel will also have to go through the MCA Greenock survey process before any Passenger Certificate can be issued. It is most unlikley that this can be done within the next six days.
Watch this space.
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From Gerard Gaffney: George,
Its dimensions are :
Length: 15.1m
Beam: 5.1m
Draught: 1.5m
If it is indeed the second vessel, and my understanding of Nautical Standards are correct, the Irish MCA standards are somewhat lower than UK MCA standards which should mean that the vessel will require a fair amount of work to bring her up to standard suitable for a passenger carrying vessel in UK Waters.
As regards the Island Princess, it was visited all day by the MCA from Greenock who will have certainly carried out a full hull inspection (as she is out of the water). They may also have checked the internals etc or go back tomorrow.
When they eventually finish their inspections, they will leave Clydelink with a list of alterations / improvements required prior to issue of a Certificate of any description.
How long these alterations / improvements will take – is anyone’s guess.
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It’s after 12 Noon on April Fool’s Day but is Clydelink joking , the MCA surveys on either of the mentioned vessels could take well over a week even before they get their UK certifications AND time to do some ‘working-up’ trials at piers and to train the uninatiated crews for the ferry run. It took the crews of the newly formed Argyll Ferries Ltd probably over a month to bed down. Will Clyde Marine boats stay on the route under contract until the whole darned thing is resolved?
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Interesting to see if the MCA pass this use of boathooks and fast footwork during the berthing milarky. Just run this past me again. At some point a deckhand has to clamber up onto Kilcreggan pier, in a south – southwesterly force 4-6 midwinter with iced up decking and ladder, whilst his mates, for’d and aft, are entertaining the “drooked punters” with some fancy footwork and nifty slight of hand with them fearsome old fashioned boathooks like they have on real BoT sportsdays – and on a 70 foot launch with minimum shelter deck? Says a lot about the planning of this great venture. Bit premature with the P45s at Kilcreggan I think? Sorry, but is all this for real?
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I think you will find Hamish that they will use a similar system to that used by the Dunoon ferries. Nobody will be clambering up icy piers, the mooring can all be done from on board.
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Jim B
Let’s hope that embarkation is made as simple as possible. The fact that Clydelink has yet to run a trial and or service can only lead to speculation. Should we be comparing one service provider against another, then who do you use as a bench mark? I for one wouldn’t pick the Dunoon ferry, perhaps we should be looking to emulate a Scandinavian or Dutch example as best practice?
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Or Mr Souter’s Auckland ferries maybe?
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We should all stop fooling around with sarcastic comments on this situation and do something about it by complaining how badly we have been let down by SPT.
No matter what, we will be left with what appears to be a much inferior service to what we have now and have in fact been deceived.
It was up to SPT to ensure that we had a new vessel.They have failed. A letter of complaint to the Scottish Parliament by each of our supporters is the answer.Look on the website all the info is there.Please do it.
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Noreen
Sorry if I came across as flippant – it was never my intention. Yes you are right in that SPT has been less than effective. Equally, it is important that the MCA say the replacement boat passes muster and the crew have the knowledge and procedures to run the route for commuter traffic.
Robert is right too – directly attacking the SPT will not change very much, the shambles they have got themselves into is perhaps indicative of their lack of expertise and they will simply batten down the hatches until things cool off. As he says there needs to be some form of EU review. The people of Dunoon lost the fight for a direct vehicle ferry which has had consequences for us in the Cowal hinterland. The fact that the Clyde estuary lacks integrated shipping routes is a disaster for us all. It doesn’t make business sense; it doesn’t make economic sense and it doesn’t make people sense. There should be a drive to harness all the expertise available and if I have been flippant, I apologise
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I don’t really see anyone ‘fooling around with sarcastic comments’ if you read them carefully. I’m serious about Souter’s operation in New Zealand – for example all his Fuller’s passenger ferries are wheelchair accessible, as are most but not all of the landings.
As SPT’s behaviour is reminiscent of that of a bunch of rotten goons running some tinpot festering tropical one-party joke state, the people who need these ferry services should treat them accordingly. If, as it would appear, the Holyrood government seems determined to court disaster by standing back until the service collapses (or a boat full of people gets into trouble?) surely the best bet is to petition the EU – which does take the provision of public transport seriously – to start legal action, and financial sanction, against the government for failure to govern.
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On second thoughts, if it does come to an appeal to Europe by the people of the Rosneath peninsula, it will be such a severe indictment of the current Holyrood government – regardless of the roots of SPT’s rottenness – that the SNP could lose a great deal of goodwill in their push for more independence.
The Edinburgh City Council mismanagement of the tram project through TIE should be warning enough for any politician.
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The loss of jobs on the pier are not good but look at how the seabus berths at gourock with no staff shore side, it works fine, always has
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There is a EU/Irish UK study group which looks at best practice for small ferries check out http://www.smallferriesproject.com/ Of course SPT knew this didn’t they?
Executive summary at http://www.smallferriesproject.com/SFP_ExecutiveSummary_English_Sept10_WEB.pdf
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On 5th May , the stand-by boat ‘Cailin Oir’ (the Golden Girl) was on the run due to the fact that one of the Island Princess twin engines was kyboshed and she was taken off roster for re-engining , how long that will take? Like the IP , there isn’t a whole lot of shelter deck space onboard but has paded benches of sorts. The company didn’t expect to use their second boat so soon and wasn’t fully certificated by the MCA , so the total number of passengers allowed was a measly 12.
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