Comment posted The Seabus (multiple) experience by woodfarmER.
I’ll be doing the Helensburgh-Kilcreggan run next week, it’s an annual event with some old work colleagues, to help support businesses in Kilcreggan and Helensburgh. Mainly the ones with a licence.
The Seabus definitely lacks the fun and charm of the Kennilworth.
Best visit to Kilcreggan was when the QE2 was at Greenock for the last time a few years back – we watched a 30 minute Red Arrows display from outside the former Rosie’s Bar, pint in hand, then sailed past the QE2 on the Kennilworth later on.
All in all a great day out, and with the Daytripper tickers, very affordable. Sitting on the terrace of the Hotel on the side of the hill in Kilcreggan, on a sunny autumn day, is just bliss.
Recent comments by woodfarmER
- Muirfield: a victory for right
Well done to Ewan and everyone else! - Highland Council caught in a copy and paste job on school closures
Not angry at you good people, just the “system”. Think we might write to the Government, just for clarification. But at the end of the day, what’s going to change? We’ll just get some gobbledygook back. It is clear that the only criteria used to close schools is what goes on behind the scenes, between the Government, COSLA and their lawyers and threats of legal action.
Additionally our proposal was practically identical to another one undertaken at the same time in ER – that’s why Google had the title for our consultation as “Auchenbach and Springhill”! A document showing all the similarities between these 2 consultations was provided to the Government. The EBS’s were identical, the only difference was excerpts from HMIE reports. - Highland Council caught in a copy and paste job on school closures
I’m not laughing, I’m too angry. The only EB provided for Robslee was the one below:41. Robslee Primary School has a low and declining intake. Larger and more flexible learning groups in the proposed amalgamated school would allow for greater peer interaction and access to the full benefits of Curriculum for Excellence.
42. Larger schools allow for greater flexibility in the deployment of staff to meet the specific needs of children. They also provide a greater opportunity for sharing of good
practice across a greater number of staff. Through the proposal, children would benefit from this broader staff expertise and range of learning and teaching methodologies.”We pointed out several times that to the civil servants that it was just cut and pasted from a Glasgow consultation:
“5.2 St Agnes’ Primary School has a low roll. Larger and more flexible learning groups allow for greater peer interaction and access to the full benefits of Curriculum for Excellence.
5.1 Larger schools allow for greater flexibility in the deployment of staff to meet the specific needs of children. They also provide an opportunity for sharing good practice across a greater number of staff. Children will benefit from this broader staff expertise and range of learning and teaching methodologies”
Apparently it didn’t matter in our case.
- Information Commission nails the coffin lid on material not held by Angus Council on Muirfield school
“Failure to refuse closure under these terms will signal the end of the Schools (Consultation) Act 2010 as a credible piece of legislation.”Does anyone really still consider it a credible piece of legislation?! Clearly not the Cab Sec or any parents who have been involved in its machinations!
Robslee was graded the same as Giffnock – however improvements have been made since the grading, eg brand new double glazing, new gym hall.
We got to visit Giffnock last week – if that is a B, I can’t imagine anything less has a roof. Tiny cramped classrooms, peeling paint, dark gloomy rooms, gym with no windows. The gym also doubles as the dining hall – it has one entrance in and out, and one small fire exit that exits into the school. Apparently the fire escape is being enlarged, which must mean that the council acknowledge it is dangerous at the moment.
54 P1s in a room the same size as the 14 P1s have at Robslee. I’m not exaggerating.
I wish Mr Russell would visit Giffnock Primary, and confirm whether he is happy that Scottish children are being taught in such conditions in 2011, it really is disgusting (I’ll just add the words East Renfrewshire Council so their web scanning picks this up).
- Sottish Ministers play Black Santa to Shetland’s Uyeasound bairns
From what I’ve heard of Mr Russell, he will not reveal anything other than ERC complied with the legal obligations of the Act. Unless you can maybe get him hammered – just keep him away from the curtains
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The old Kennilworth ferry with its open decks was a real treat. The new one – well it is a bus. With the old ferry it was possible to wander round on the open decks to get views from all sides, it felt a bit of an adventure. It was a great and cheap wee treat if the weather was good and you just wanted out on the water. It was up there with the Statten Island and Star ferries. Kids loved it. Now…well an opportunity missed by SPT.
The pier end has just been dredged so hopefully fewer cancellations.
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The comments on the less than convenient transfer between ferry and train at Gourock Station – particularly for elderly or disabled people – bear elaboration; one of the photos shows work in progress on one platform, so money’s being spent on the station.
It would be interesting to know what’s being done, and if it’s Railtrack organising the work then it’ll be costing far more than it would anywhere else in Europe.
My question is whether the transport authorities (SPT?) have taken a hard look at the setup at Gourock, and established the reason why the station can’t be rebuilt with the train platform next to the ferry terminal, financed by redevelopment of the existing station area?
Or is this concept too sophisticated for 21st century Scotland?
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Aye remember newsie the ‘facilities’ for travellers from Dunoon, who now disembark fromthe old car ramp, are worse and further away. So far away you miss your connecting train. Another ‘fix’ from those wonderful people that, lied and cheated Cowal out of their ferries, brought you flawed school legislation and agreed to close Robslee.
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For Simon: You’re a bit out of date – we recently published a statement from Argyll Ferries which included the information that they are reworking the timetable to allow more time at Gourock betwee the arrival and departure of connecting trains and the arrival and departure of their ferries.
This is part of the natural process of refinining the service as best the company can, to make it as stress free and useful a service as possible for its passengers.
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Do you mean Cafe 19?
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For Cahoot: If it’s more or less opposite the Rhu end of the car park and if its a long internal rectangle with the kitchen at the back,if it has staff with a will to help and does great coffee – we must have been seduced by the liberation of the number 21. Let us know and we’ll amend the text.
Going on the Seabus with a good cup of coffee to hand adds to the adventure.
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Yep, sounds like Cafe 19.
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I’ll be doing the Helensburgh-Kilcreggan run next week, it’s an annual event with some old work colleagues, to help support businesses in Kilcreggan and Helensburgh. Mainly the ones with a licence.
The Seabus definitely lacks the fun and charm of the Kennilworth.
Best visit to Kilcreggan was when the QE2 was at Greenock for the last time a few years back – we watched a 30 minute Red Arrows display from outside the former Rosie’s Bar, pint in hand, then sailed past the QE2 on the Kennilworth later on.
All in all a great day out, and with the Daytripper tickers, very affordable. Sitting on the terrace of the Hotel on the side of the hill in Kilcreggan, on a sunny autumn day, is just bliss.
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The article, unfortunately, fails give any mention of the fact that the Seabus is not wheelchair accessible, so those of us wheelchair users can’t enjoy its service at all – an absolute disgrace in the days of statutory equality duties directed towards means of transport. The writer of the article mentions that wheelchair users might have to go twice the distance of other people between the pier and railway station at Gourock, but this is not a problem since wheelchair users can’t actually use the ferry at all. How is it that in 2011 this can be allowed to happen?
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For Andrew Reid: You’re quite right on both counts. We apologise for the omission and will pursue the deficit.
Assuming that there would automatically be wheelchair access, we had misread the physical provision at the piers, seeing lower cutaways as offering direct access to the lounge level for wheelchairs.
When we saw your comment just now, we went back to our photographs and the lower level cutaways into the piers are stepped, meaning that they simply offer pedestrian access at different tidal states.; and that there is indeed no wheelchair access of any kind.
This ought to be illegal in a public transport service and is utterly unacceptable. We will add material to the article and will draw the situation to the attention of MSPs and Ministers.
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The same I understand Andrew as with the toy ferries foisted on the Dunoon and Cowal travelling public – not wheelchair accessible. Disgrace – but legal. Apparently ferries are exempt from the DDA. Result – in the 21st Centure in Scotland – wheelchair users are excluded. Disgraceful and shabby.
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The question is how the Clyde ferry services can be made disabled friendly; my experience, from half a century ago on the Dartmouth – Kingswear ferry in South Devon, is pontoon landing stages with link walkways long enough to be safe for wheelchair use at any state of the tide, and this solution seems to be widely adopted around the world.
The alternative – perhaps where sea conditions preclude the use of pontoons – is for either the ferry or the terminal to have an adjustable gangway, to wheelchair standards.
What isn’t acceptable is the traditional crude, clumsy, labour-intensive gangway – often at a steep angle,with a drop down off the top end, and always with transverse ‘non slip’ ribs that would be condemned as a trip hazard anywhere else, a ‘people handling’ system more suitad to sheep transport.
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The bizarre things is (and correct me if I am wrong on this Andrew) is that I thought one of the reasons for the Seabus replacing the Kenilworth was becasuse the Kenilworth wasn’t considered to be wheelchair friendly.
By the way newsroom – small error in the article in that the white building is not the hotel. The hotel is slightly further up the hill than that, pretty much behind the white house (give or take)
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For Integrity? Not in the ConDemAll: Thanks. Text being amended to ‘pretty much behind the white house (give or take)’. That captures it.
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I can confirm that I was involved in the early discussions with Strathclyde Partnership for Transport (SPT) to get a new ferry on the Gourock / Helensburgh / Kilcreggan route. We were always led to believe that the new boat would have disabled access even although the legislation did not require ferries to be DDA compliant. It was only after the Seabus came on the route that it was clear that there was a problem with disabled access.
The argument that came forward was that there was a problem with the piers / landing facilities and that it would require a great deal of money to provide full disabled access. There was an argument over who was responsible for finding the money that would be required to carry out this work remembering that there are issues at Helensburgh and Gourock as well as Kilcreggan. There were even veiled threats that we could lose the ferry if this issue was pushed.
I have continued to pursue this issue with officers over the past few months and the latest response that they have now received from SPT states that: “The arrangements on the Seabus vessel are DDA compliant, arrangements at the piers are not. Kilcreggan and Helensburgh Piers are A&B Council’s responsibility and Gourock is CMAL”. “I do not see either of those bodies having funding and SPT certainly does not have the funding to provide DDA access at these piers”.
Council officers have now informed me that the vessel was commissioned by SPT without any reference to the council and arrived on service advertising DDA compliance. There was an expectation that the Council would amend the piers at Helensburgh and Kilcreggan to comply.
The Council took the stance at that time that any work would need to be funded by SPT although more realistically, officers met with the ferry operator and agreed that in order to make either of these piers DDA compliant would require extensive works that for a number of reasons were not practicable.
I am told that there is a significant fetch to both structures which affects wave height, the ramp would need to move with the tides and the length of the ramp, to comply with design codes would mean significant reconstruction of the piers. At Helensburgh it would definitely encroach on the concrete approach before entering into the timber structure. Officers have told me that there is no funding to take this matter forward at this time.
I am continuing to pursue this matter with a view to getting funding secured within the Council’s capital programme to allow this work to be carried out. Having said that, there will certainly be no quick fix to this problem.
I hope that this has helped to clarify the situation with regards to this ongoing problem.
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Sounds to me as if – given that SPTA doesn’t seem to have the authority (or ability?) to effectively coordinate these services – the government should get cracking, recognise the urgent need for coordination if a fit for purpose passenger ferry system is to be encouraged, and legislate for what’s required as a first step to providing the services that people deserve.
Otherwise the present rather dismal botch-up will continue, to the discredit of all involved.
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Thanks for that clarification Cllr Freeman,
I was not aware that Council’s were not obliged to ensure that public transportation was DDA compliant (or at least their ‘role’ in the provision of it). I know much money is spent on making operational buildings as DDA compliant as possible (and where practical) and it seems perverse that an entire public trasnport route (pier and ferry) are not a high priority.
As an aside an inkeeping with the theme of ‘lack of joined up thinking’ I once discussed the fact that the Seabus and the Gourock Glasgow train timetables were not exactly well aligned with someone fairly high up in transport in Scotland.
His response was to let me know how difficult it is to change a train timetable due to the knowk on effect elsewhere in the ‘grid’ – I felt it necessary to point out that it would surely be easier just to change the ferry timetable by a few minutes rather than the train timetable!
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I love the gouock to kilcreggan ferry link. So much more cost effective and convenient than a taxi from Glasgow airport, plus the added advantage of an unhealthy breakfast at the cafe in kilcreggan!!
My disappointment is the getting to the ferry from the airport, whiich involves buses and trains which don’t seem to have a joined up time table. Pretty diabolical compared to the flytoget which runs directly from near my office straight into Oslo gardemon.
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Ourmaninoslo: Could it be that the greater Oslo region has the sort of integrated multimodal passenger transport system that the SPTE was set up to oversee for ‘greater Glasgow’ but unfortunately the ‘movers and the shakers’ in the SPTE in recent years would seem to have been more interested in the gravy train than the needs of the ‘common man’ (and woman and child) ?
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As a maritime photographer , well! , a fair weather one! , I will always be disappointed in the MV Seabus and being refused to utilise the upper deck in transit for pictorial observations. You are just simply not allowed to stand up there so have to go down to the lower stern part and hopefully get a decent shot? I’m wondering if it is just the Skipper’s rules or Clyde Marine Services policy for this individual boat. I was simply delighted on the 5th November when the veteran MV Rover was put on the Kilgreggan-Helensburgh service for just one day (I think) and couldn’t believe my luck and took the full triangle sail. Why aren’t the passengers not allowed to observe from the top deck? (Elf & Safety)
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As we’ve said above, we think that the upper ‘deck’ was not intended to be used and is no more than a light plastic cover.
Where it’s laid over the roof of the passenger compartment below, it draws strength from that, But because it projects unsupported over the lower stern deck, it would not bear weight and would give way when, inevitably, people would stand there.
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