Do you pay your Council Tax by direct debit, cheque, or cash? At the moment you have the choice – but the choice you and others make may cost the council.
A 2006 Scottish Executive report – based on 2005 research – found that Scotland has a lower rate of annual council tax collection than is the case in England and Wales.
All sorts of reasons have been advanced to account for this – from the lack of a custodial sentence penalty for non-payment to embedded attitudes deriving from Scotland’s still famous poll-tax riots.
Now Andrew Vennard, an Oban solicitor and a specialist in this field, has had an article published on this subject in The Journal Online, the Law Society of Scotland’s magazine.
In it he looks at a previously ignored aspect of council tax collection which has the capacity to make a difference to the council’s success rate in collecting this tax. The article also contains a few surprises on related matters no one would have imagined – and makes suggestions for addressing them.
At the moment, a householder may pay their council tax either in one instalment or in 10 monthly instalments – by whichever of the methods mentioned above they personally prefer to use – cash, cheque or direct debit.
Yet these methods of payment have different collection rates and collection costs.
Basically, Mr Vennard recommends that councils should at least incentivise if not require payment by direct debit. It is the cheapest method of collection and enforcement and therefore the one most guaranteed to deliver – and on time.
A ranked table of collection by direct debit payment in the 32 Scottish local authorities, based on 2009-10 figures, shows Argyll and Bute doing well – third in the rankings, with a 75.4% direct debit collection rate and with only 4% of arrears owing by those paying this way.
Stirling has 81.2% of its council tax paid by direct debit, with no arrears due from this payment source. East Ayrshire collects only 50.53% of its total council tax by direct debit but, like, Stirling, has no arrears due from this source.
In terms of the obvious sense in incentivising householders to pay by direct debit, Mr Vennard notes that Dumfries & Galloway, East Dunbartonshire, Highland, Midlothian, Moray, Perth & Kinross, Stirling, West Dunbartonshire, and West Lothian indeed do so.
These councils offer householders paying council tax by direct debit the option to do so by 12 rather than 10 instalments, which spreads outgoings evenly and enables more straightforward household budgeting.
He asks the obvious question – why don’t the other local authorities do the same? Where some may well interpret the giovenring legislation to mean that they do not have the ability to offer this option Mr Vennard shows that they do and how they do.
The big surprise
This comes in a section of the article entitled ‘The Debtors Within’.
It turns out that not insignificant amounts of council tax are actually owed by council employees.
While recognising that in many cases these debts are due to late payment and will eventually be paid, it is nevertheless an utterly unsatisfactory situation which Mr Vennard addresses.
Some councils simply do not know whether or how much council tax is owed by their own employees. Thsor reaosn for this ignorance is the easy plea of fear of breaching the 1998 Data Protection Act.
Of the 18 councils who do know this figure, 5 of them – and good to see that this includes Argyll and Bute – have run ‘a matching exercise” to determine the facts.
This involves a simple comparison of the addresses of households owing council tax against the addresses of the households of council employees.
Of those local authorities able to report on this situation (and using the matching method to establish it), Glasgow has the highest amount of total arrears due from its own employees at £3,646,279. Argyll and Bute is in the middle of the table and in 2009-10 was owed £346,894 by its own staff.
Andrew Vennard makes several suggestion for approaches to this embarrassing situation. One is offering employees the option of direct deduction of council tax from salary, another – which seems both reasonable and the most effective – is making it a condition of employment by the council that the council tax due from the household of an employee is paid on time.
Any tax is always a tricky issue, with often reasonable resentments on the part of those who do – or who are compelled by PAYE – to pay their perceived dues against those who legally contrive not to do so.
With Council Tax, the position of holiday homes owners is highly controversial, effectively protecting the investment of property owners against the general affordability of local home ownership by the significant reduction of this tax on the grounds of less frequent occupation.
It has long been clear that the correct approach to second or additional home ownership is that 100% council tax at the appropriate band should simply and universally be payable on all properties.
If we expect large companies – which today we do – to exercise corporate social responsibility in the areas and environments in which they operate, we should expect also individual social responsibility in the payment of council tax to the area which provides services to homes and properties we own or use.
This is particularly important in the case of Argyll, which has an ageing population to support, significant unemployment and a low average wage.
Andrew Vennard’s article gives us insights into that world on the other side of the fence, the local authority with books to balance. It is well worth reading.
SOmething A&B offers that not all Councils offer (as far as I am aware) is the possibility of paying your CT by direct debit on a weekly basis.
I am not 100% sure but I think where Council employees are in arrears on CT the Council can actually enforce repayment through salary seizure however they can only do this if the employee lives in their Council area. I do know that some Councils have sent letters to employees to remind them of this fact in the past.
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You are right on that one Integ. If you owe Council Tax and work for the same Council, they can take it directly from your wages.
The Poll Tax damage is partly responsible for the change in attitudes towards paying this kind of tax. Many Council Employees at the time of the Poll Tax did not agree with it, even those working within that section. The Trade Unions were also in direct opposition to it. And when it came to arresting people’s wages, Strathclyde Region made sure to hit its own employees before going for the general public.
I worked in the Computer Department at Dumbarton then and was totally scunnered to have to input my own arrestment!
Paying taxes or rates up to that point was something that was largely accepted for the things the council provided you with ie streets, lights, bin collections, schools, social work etc etc etc. At some point, all these things had been new and there was a more responsible attitude amongst people at that time that these things were to be paid for. The Poll Tax changed that and people who now take these services for granted got to see that you could not pay it and although the council might catch up with you, you could pay a couple of quid a week to some Sheriff’s Officer and that would be it – although your Council Tax bill will just grow and grow, year after year.
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Crazy She Bat.
You should be ashamed to admit that you did not pay your Community Charge (the correct name for Poll Tax) yet you were quite prepared to be paid by Strathclyde Regional Council. It is just as well there were plenty of honest people in Strathclyde Region paying their Community Charge payments otherwise Strathclyde Regional Council would have gone bankrupt and you would have lost your job.
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It is quite easy for Argyll & Bute Council to seize outstanding Council Tax payments from any Council Tax payer including A & B employees. All Argyll & Bute Council have to do is to serve an arrestment notice on the bank account of the Council Tax payer who is in arrears. If an A & B employee is not resident in Argyll & Bute then they will not be in arrears to Argyll & Bute Council.
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Treblet, do we really want to re-open the Poll Tax can of worms? There is still a lot of bitterness around about it.
I was 18 at that time. We had just switched from the old rates system where it was charged per household to the Tories enforcing this upon us to every single person being charged the same and sometimes leaving them with next to nothing to live on. Do you not remember the protests? I certainly was not alone in not agreeing with this tax.
This was enforced upon Scotland by a Westminster Tory Government that didn’t give a crap if Scotland protested. If you remember at that time, the vast majority of Scotland voted Labour, but were still governed by a bunch of self-serving Conservative scum who were only interested in keeping their ENGLISH seats.
The Poll Tax or Community Charge if you want to be precise, was an unfair horrible tax that will go down in the annals along with the Corn Laws etc as one that persecuted and disadvantaged those most in need.
The Poll Tax was responsible for me becoming politically active before hitting my twenties.
And for the record, I do and have always paid my Council Tax.
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Crazy She Bat.
Do you know the reason why the Community Charge was introduced in Scotland before the rest of the UK. It is certainly NOT the reason you have stated.
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For Treblet: The Poll Tax – or Community Charge, as it was named later in a crisis rebranding – was introduced in Scotland first to try it out.
With compulsory seat belts having been trialled first in Northern Ireland, at that time the smaller home nations were feeling like laboratory monkeys and had had enough of it.
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Crazy, I was politically active before the poll tax arrived and can tell you exactly why it was introduced here. Not enough Tory votes.
One of my tasks was to make up canvass cards from the electoral register. Prior to the poll tax that was quite a job in Glasgow. After the poll tax it was a dawdle as half the electorate had disappeared. Maw, Paw and the three grown-up weans became just Maw and Paw. Inflation had run riot, jobs were disappearing like snow off a dyke – British Steel, Rowantree McIntosh, Caterpillar, Golden Wonder all went south for the grant aid – and people couldn’t afford the luxury of a vote.
I attempted to pay my poll tax in bags of small change, once a fortnight for a year. They always knocked it back and then wrote me another nasty letter, but they never did take me to court.
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Excellent article from Andrew Vennard the Oban solicitor, which is full of well researched relevant information.
Well worth a look.
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Treblet, this is what I remember about it. It was enforced on Scotland first.
I remember seeing a pic of the country in the colours of the political parties around that time and seeing Scotland in Red and the further South you went with the exception of some of the cities. I remember that as Anne says, the Tories of Westminster trialled all their ideas on Scotland, Ireland and Wales including sending their lovely weapons of mass destruction here.
The Poll Tax is what made me politically active. Why they changed it to the Poll Tax, I do not know. But I am absolutely certain that history teachers will be educating kids about it one day as an unfair, oppresive tax.
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Sorry, that should read – the further south you went it was all blue, except some of the cities.
Typing and having 3 conversations at the same time this morning.
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The reason that the Community Charge was introduced in Scotland was because there was rates revaluation in 1984. As a result of this revaluation the rateable value increased by a factor of 3.7. The rateable value of the flat I lived in in Dundee increased from £118 to £437 at a stroke. If the local authorities had played fair then the rates paid by the householders should have been reduced by the same factor so that the sum paid remained the same.
However many Labour controlled local authorities including Tayside Regional Council and Dundee District Council took the opportunity to greatly increase the pence per pound of rateable value charged and then blamed Mrs Thatcher and the Conservative Government in power for the increase due to the rates revaluation.
There was an outcry by the ratepayers and the Community Charge was introduced in the late 1980′s.
If you do not believe me I suggest that you ask long serving councillors such as Donnie Macmillan from Lochgilphead if my information is correct.
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This perhaps explains things. In 1984 I was 12.
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Newsroom.
The correct name is Community Charge. It was the red top newspapers who incorrectly called it the Poll Tax.
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Crazy She Bat.
That means next year you will be 40.
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It also doesn’t change the FACT that the Poll Tax/Community Charge or whatever you want to call it was an unfair tax.
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To be technically correct, I hit the big Four-Oh at the end of this year. For the majority of 1984 I was 12.
Not sure how being 40 relates to the subject though.
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So your posh name is really “Young Crazy She-Bat”?
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I do not consider the Community Charge to be an unfair tax. After I moved house in 1986 I was certainly better off with the Community Charge than I was paying rates.
The Community Charge was a much fairer tax because if there were four adults in one house all working and bringing in a wage they each had to make a Community Charge payment. With the rates system one person living alone paid the same rates as the house next door which could have four working adults each bringing in a wage. That is certainly not fair.
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And thats the can of worms opened. Treblet, you might be one of the few that were better off, the majority were not, hence the rioting and protests.
You obviously liked it because it was more money in your pocket – too bad for the wee widowed Grannies that had to sell their houses because their hubbies thought they were doing the right thing in providing for them by buying the house, AND all the other cases.
I’m alright Jack. That should be a Tory slogan.
I don’t think the Poll Tax was fair. I remember sitting with my wee recently widowed Grannie helping her fill in her forms and her being in tears about it.
There was a lot wrong with the Poll Tax. However, if you cared to look at someone other than yourself, you would have known this.
As far as being a council employee at the time. I had the right to protest and oppose the Poll Tax, the same as the next person. I exercised that right. I take it you would remove this fundamental human right and not allow this? Would you also remove the right for Council Employees to strike? Would you not allow people to give their opinions about closing their kid’s school, just because they are Council Employees?
You have your opinion about this, I have mine. Mine happens to be on the side of the majority.
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…um, direct debit?
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And while we all fought each other over that can of worms Thatcher closed down Scotland, sold us what we owned already and spent the oil revenues we should have been banking for the future. The money she raked in wasn’t spent anywhere I could see it and I traveled most of the roads in Scotland in that era.
The vast majority of people were worse off so they protested that it was unfair. Those, like Treblet, who were better off (and I was one of them) often declared that the tax was fair (and I was not one of them). A system which creates that division is inherently unstable. The only thing that IS fair is tax based on ability to pay. Thus if the four adults in your house happen to be unemployed no punitive taxes are liable.
Before anyone starts on the unemployed, I knocked many, many doors in the central belt at that time and found a people emasculated. In Motherwell men cried when they spoke of their lost steel jobs. In the north of Glasgow, in areas built to house the rail industry, there were three generations with no prospect of a job. In 1960, 95% of the world’s total rolling stock, that’s all the trains on the planet, were built in Springburn. By that time there was a small unit left doing repairs and maintenance. I saw streets with no cars and kids with no shoes playing in the November rain during the Thatcher years. I’m left speechless by anyone who thinks it was a good, or fair, time or that a four adult household must be awash with money. By definition it’s as likely a household where the young people are unable to earn enough to leave home and establish their own lives.
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Stephen, LOL! Direct debit.
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I have learnt over the years to look after No 1 and that is what I now do and will be doing in the future.
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It was an unfair tax, whatever you call it. Ill conceived, and used Scotland as guinea pigs for sure.
I am not particularly nationalistic, but i must speak my view in this debate. People should take responsibility for their living costs, but Thatcher went way OTT, as was ulimately proved beyond any doubt. ‘Im all right jack’ is not a nice sentiment for amyone to display.
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One of the most shameful things the Labour Party did in the early 90s was expel Terry Fields due his being given a 60 day prison sentence for refusing to pay the poll tax.
He stood against a disgusting regressive taxation system that shifted the tax burden hugely off the shoulders of the nations wealthy and dumped it on the shoulders of those least able to pay. That any Government would favour such a policy is iniquitous but we are talking about Thatcher’s Tory party who were about as wicked as it comes.
I was not of an age to be a taxpayer at the time it was introduced but I applaud those who refused to pay it as without them the Tory Party would have implemented it rather than bottling out of it when the 1992 elections started looming and when they witnessed protests in England as well as Scotland.
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LOL @ Stephen and Hotbird.
“Shameful” good word Integ. Thinking about that word right now.
It actually makes me sad more than anything. It doesn’t happen often, but every once in a while, you come across someone without compassion. Jeez, even my ex-husband has a little!
I won’t bother going into a big speech about how if people looked after more than themselves, the world will be a better place yada yada yada… but at least by saying that’s your attitude Treblet, it explains some of your comments.
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Treblet, that’s a lonely place to be and I’m sorry you live there.
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Yes, there were sound reasons for introducing the Community Charge into Scotland first.
Yes, it was handled with the utmost insensitivity and provoked a huge protest, and created a mess with local government funding that persists to this day.
And no, “looking after Number One” really doesn’t work as a strategy. It invariably imposes costs on other people. Without their consent.
Anyway, all this fuss for less than 10% of the Council’s income. Surely there must be a better way.
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Stephen.
There is a better way. Get rid of Local Government including Councillors and Community Councillors and have everything paid by taxation. All current council employees would become civil servants. In Scotland we currently have too many levels of government.
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Oh jeez. Then it would be a one size fits all bureacracy and no local level input to tailor services to the needs of each geographical area.
There is one level of Bureaucracy that would go, COSLA. It’s not needed anymore. Local Authorities can negotiate with the Scottish Government on their own. They don’t need a bunch of self-serving, interfering busybodies.
And one last wee point… if we made all council employees civil servants, wouldn’t that lead to a helluva lot of pay rises?
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Treblet, I can see how that would work if we were to have smaller constituencies and a greater number of MSPs. What we don’t need is any system that imposes central belt policies on rural areas. The abolition of councils would require massive restructuring and many checks and balances to avoid that.
I am minded of a recent conversation with the central police switchboard where my failure to give a street name and number baffled the operator completely. I’m not sure why she imagined four runaway highland bullocks would stand still up a close, but that was the implication of the information she insisted she needed. Meanwhile said bullocks were charging around a particularly evil bend on a 60mph road.
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Treblet is right about the logic of the community charge introduction – it was introduced because of a looming rates revaluation in Scotland.
The fairness or otherwise of the tax is neither here nor there.
What destroyed it was its sheer uncollectibility.
It was easy to make a stance ‘on principle’ by refusing to pay it; it was equally easy not to bother paying it simply because you didn’t want to – thousands defaulted and are still in pocket.
The government might have suffered, but not as much as those who did stump up. In year one the non-payment surcharge imposed was a £40 excess, and the same in year two. By year three the figure had risen to £100 – but that was kept very quiet indeed.
I paid my poll tax, but deducted the surcharge each year, on the not unreasonable basis that it wasn’t my debt. My wife, afraid of possible legal action, eventually paid it without telling me.
Incidentally, one aspect of the poll tax was that councils could set the rate for second homes at double the standard rate, which is what Strathclyde did.
When the council tax was introduced, this was amended to just 50 percent of the rate, since too many MPs were suffering….
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Treblet, your idea has merit, and is worth exploring. It’s the way things are going with quangos–ah, sorry, executive agencies–and housing associations and the like.
But there has to be some locality in planning, and some local accountability. How would that work?
Personally I favour attempting to make the current system work properly. Possibly with 100% GAE. Possibly with another attempt at a fair local services tax. I dunno. Discuss.
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Quangos? I defy anyone to read this and not get scunnered
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14434417
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Must agree with above sentiments re too many layers of government. Laughable to a ‘yes minister’ extent were it not so damn expensive. A huge proportion of our money goes on the running of the massive beurocracy and not on physical or visible enhancements to our lives. Quite the opposite with so many services under threat , and disastrous roads etc etc ……
MEPS MPS MSPS CONCILLORS COMMUNITY COUNCILLORS
HOUSING ASSOC HITRANS CONSULTANTS ……
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As someone involved at various levels in Housing Association management committees over many years I would be grateful if Phil could identify what savings would be made by abolishing them.While unable to do all that is required in the provision of affordable housing I believe that their contribution in Argyll & Bute is positive and cost effective.
Those too who seflessly serve on our Community Councils deserve our gratitude rather than such carping criticism.
I did not pay my Poll Tax when it was levied although I put the sum, along with the penalty payments, aside on a reular basis. The tax was wholly regressive and was defeated only because it was made unworkable.I paid my dues the day after it was abolished.It is the only time in my life that I have consciously broken the law and I would do the same again in similar circumstances
The superfluous bureaucracy in the Scottish context is surely the one based in Westminster that takes so much more than it gives with its delusions of imperial grandeur! Like growing numbers of those living in Scotland it is an issue that we are confronting.
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Ken McColl.
I understand that you are an SNP supporter.
I would like to take your mind back to the General Election in May 1992. At that time the Labour party were expected to win the election but against all the odds the Conservative party won the election and stayed in power until 1997.
John Swinney SNP was a red hot favourite to win the Perth and East Perthshire constituency.
I was working on the mobile bank at Stanley Perthshire when he came on the mobile bank to ask me if I was voting for him. He was quite taken aback when I said no as I lived in the Dundee West constituency.
I advised John Swinney that he would fail to be elected because he encouraged all his SNP supporters not to register for the Community Charge. I explained that as a result of these actions his SNP supporters would not appear on the Electoral register and as a result would not get a vote.
Against all the odds the Conservative party held Perth and East Perthshire and remained in power at Westminster.
The following Monday Mr Swinney did not return to the mobile bank to tell me I was correct and to this date I am still waiting for his reply.
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For Treblet: This was invaluabe procedural knowledge – always a very necessary toolkit.
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To Ken Macoll
I admire indivduals, on community councils, and am never suggested Housing assosciations do not do good work, as i suspect you know. What i am saying quite clearly is that we dont need so many bodies, including parliaments to run our life. Its madness and we dont have the money.
I would for the record were it my choice, retain the community input, but Europe, westminster, and hollyrood is cumbersome expensive and self satisfying in many instances.
Your choice wuld be to get shot of westminster, and i am not disagreeing with you entirely, but the current political system needs flushed out and streamline and one way or the other the referendum in a few years time will give the answer. we simply cant afford to be paying MPs and MSPs and MEPs. Christ, some of them even do 2 jobs in different parliaments.
Treblet does have good points, re John Swinney and the prevelant attitude at that time. It is easier to be a rebel that the establishment party as the SNP will find out. That said i think their front bench team are pretty sharp in general and the other parties have catching up to do!
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While I refused to pay the Poll Tax I did not remove my name from the Electoral Roll- I value my vote far too much to do that! The SNP policy was to withhold payment. “Can pay-won’t pay” and that was what I did. As I worked for a government agency at that time it was a risky course of action but it was a matter of principle.
I have known John Swinney for many years and I would merely observe that John now holds the revised Perth seat with a stonking majority and that the nationalists also hold Dundee West. Opposition is certainly easier than government and that is particularly true if you are operating with your natural resources being manipulated by outside agencies, but you need the reins of power to achieve anything.
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By gloating so much in stonking victories Ken you are inviting critiscism of being a tad too cocky , something i am pleased that Alex Salmond has not done as he can see the danger in that – it should be steady as you go, and not forever whining about the resources (oil) thing.
The Snp government have handled things well since being elected and have shown understanding of the electorates pulse for 2 or 3 years now, and came through one offs like the ‘magrahi’ issue pretty well. They have proved themselves not to be a one song singer, and to the new snp’s credit they have ditched previous chip on the shoulder attitudes which im afraid you find hard to do so Ken. You are a honest and fervent supporter i have no doubt, you as a leading light for many years must do all you can to keep the power and build on it and as the new establishment treat the all electorate as your masters have shown the way. Nothing will sharpen the voting intention of a floating voter more than over confidence in the ranks of the snp at whatever level.
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To go back to the original topic. I pay my council tax by direct debit because it is the safest way to pay it.
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I pay it in cash at the office, i don’t trust them enough to set up a DD, they find it hard enough to know what people are or aren’t due the plain old fashioned way.
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Tamar.
All you have to do is to enter your name, bank sorting code and bank account number on the direct debit form and return it to the finance department of Argyll & Bute Council. The finance department enters your reference number on the form and processes it. It is a far cheaper method of collecting council tax than people paying in cash at their bank by Bank Giro Credit or at the council office.
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Treblet, I suggest you read Tamar’s comment again – I don’t think he’s suggesting he doesn’t know how to do it…..
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Islayresident.
Tamar said in his post that he did not trust the council to be able to set up his Direct Debit correctly.
I was explaining to him how easy it was to complete a Direct Debit form. Under the rules of the Direct Debit scheme if the council makes a mistake and over charges a customer through their bank account, once notified the bank are duty bound to immediately refund their customer. The bank then debit the council through the Direct Debit Indemnity Scheme.
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Key point being ‘once notified’ some things are easier said than done.
I pay pretty much everything else with DD. They don’t mess up as often, making sure things are cheaper for the council isn’t high up my list of priorities i’m afraid, fear not though it isn’t A&B council footing the bill, i’m in Angus.
I am also a girl but that is a by the by.
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Direct debit for me.
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Before you condemn the community councilors you should remember that they are volunteers and do not get paid. Perhaps the people complaining should do a wee bit more for their community and less of the griping!!!. This could reduce cost for some of the local services
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Well, I have to admit Direct Debit has lost its appeal to me now.
Since Treblet seems on a crusade to lower her council tax by making people do things that might not be convenient to them, I feel the need to act in a disruptive manner with my future payments just so it can start costing even more.
I have decided that each month I shall send the council a treasure map, filled with cryptic challenges and I shall stash the cash in an old shoebox and make sure its all in coppers.
My Council Tax is buried under a large rock.
X marks the spot.
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Those who boast here that they broke the law by refusing to pay the community charge are no different from the scum who are breaking the law by rioting and looting .
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Oh please, get a grip
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I see For Argyll has it’s own pet Troll.
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LOL @ Troll
Having read all the posts on this, I wouldn’t say anyone here was boasting about not paying it. It was a horrible tax and a horrible part of our history. It caused the majority of people distress and anguish.
I for one thought there was nothing funny or cool about not paying it. After thinking long and hard, I made a conscientious decision and stuck by it.
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I thought Trolls were a peculiarly Norwegian aberration – and that Scotland hosted other equally sinister creatures (but then, with the Norwegian settlement of some areas such as Kintyre in yearss gone by, I suppose there could be the odd Troll lurking in some dark corner).
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They’re pretty prevalent on the internet too.
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Crazy, love your treasure map idea and am going to start drawing mine now! Maybe I’ll bury my box of cash in a school playground… Tamar, many apologies for turning you into a man!
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Tamar.
Providing your check your monthly bank statement when you receive it should quite easy to get any mistakes resolved quickly by your bank. I note that you live in the Angus Council area and the same rules apply for them as Argyll & Bute.
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Crazy She Bat.
Kintyre 1 is correct. If everyone paid their council tax by direct debit and on time council tax would either be lower or more services would be able to be provided instead of being cut. People who do not pay their council are stealing from the council and other law abiding council tax payers.
There have been numerous articles in the papers explaining that goods in the shops cost more to cover the cost of shoplifting.
I think that the council should put a list of the people who are more than 12 months in arrears with their council tax in the window of every service point in Argyll & Bute to let their fellow council tax payers know who they are.
I have seen this happen. Whilst on holiday in Campbeltown in August 1995 a local shop put a list of peple who had not paid their exsisting accounts for a period of 12 months or more. This list was in the window when the shop opened on the Saturday morning for business and the list was soon attracting a lot of attention from shoppers. By 4pm it was amazing how many names and addresses had been deleted from the list as debtors had been shamed into clearing their outstanding debts.
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Treblet, I am not debated whether or not people pay this. What I am taking exception to, is your attitude that everyone should pay by Direct Debit. This is not your choice to make for people and since you have clearly stated you only care about yourself, I will point some things out to you about others.
There are people who do not have bank accounts. Yes, its true.
There are people who are still paid in cash. Amazing isn’t it.
There are people who prefer using cash. Its their choice.
There are people for whom it is more convenient to pay in cash or bank transfer, for instance, people who are not paid weekly or monthly.
It is a fundamental right for people to manage their money in the way that they want to and if that means your Council Tax remains higher, then thats just tough.
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I am somewhere in the middle of the ‘How to Pay’ argument. CSB points out some situations where paying cash is the most appropriate for people (i.e. no bank accounts or don’t get paid at regular timescales).
However I would encourage those who can pay by DD, where the timing of their income streams allows it, to do so. It is cheaper for the LA and we should be looking to do things in such as a way that maximise the pot the LA can spend on services (arguments aside about whether they spend it appropriately). Paying by DD is actually safer than paying by cash as paying by cash at a counter means an error can occur every time whereas paying by DD normally means the error can only occur at the start and is quickly rectified (bar freak occurrences).
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Crazy She Bat.
If you wish to pay your bills in cash that is your choice. I prefer to pay regular bills such council tax and utility bills by Direct Debit as it is the safest method with laid down rules. Utility companies such as gas and electricty companies give a bigger discount to customer who pay monthly by Direct Debit.
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For the record, I do and have always paid by Direct Debit.
I do however, respect the rights of others to pay in other methods.
Council Tax being paid by Direct Debit will NEVER reach 100% due to people with circumstances like I have already listed. It’s impossible to achieve.
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Crazy She Bat.
Thank you for your reply. I agree that not everybody is in a position to pay their council tax by Direct Debit but every council tax payer who has a suitable bank account should be encouraged to pay their council tax by Direct Debit. It costs a lot more money to process a Bank Giro Credit that it does to process a Direct Debit Payment.
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Crazy She Bat.
Lets get down to the nitty gritty.
Is your general waste bin (black bin) emptied weekly or fortnightly. Where I live our general waste bin has been emptied fortnightly since August 2006 FIVE YEARS AGO. As I pay the same council tax as someone in Lochgilphead on the same banding I expect to receive the same level of council service which certainly not the case.
Council tax payers who are currently having their general waste bins emptied fortnightly should receive a reduction in their council tax or alternatively council tax payers who have their general waste bins emptied weekly should pay a surcharge for a superior service.
In August 2006 our skips were removed permanently and we were given brown bins for our garden waste which were emptied fortnightly. In April 2011 this service was removed to save £33,254 per annum (FOI) about the amount as a Senior Councillor receives annually in pay and expenses.
Local residents are now left with three options.
1. Put the garden waste on a compost heap in your garden if you have space
2. Put your garden waste in bin bags and take them to the local council waste dump, a journey of up to 23 miles one way or a round trip of 46 miles at £1.50 per litre of unleaded.
3. Flytip.
Personally speaking I would reduce the number of Senior Councillors and reinstate the brown bin collection service in my area. However as far as councillors are concerned it will be a case of self preservation.
I read recently that 100 Senators run the United States of America where as in Argyll & Bute we have 36 councillors to attempt to do likewise.
I would interested to know what the councillors who pass comments on this forum say about my comments but in this case no doubt their silence will be deafening.
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Treblet, I won’t comment too much on this as it seems to be getting a bit off-track. This seems to be more about how the Council divvy up their services, rather than about methods of paying Council Tax.
I do agree that the Council could do with a major shake-up in how it distributes and delivers services. Far too much is given to towns in my opinion and rural areas are seen as an inconvenience. That attitude has to change.
For the record, we’re on fortnightly collection and have never had a brown bin. Just general and recycling.
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Treblet,
People who don’t pay council tax are quite often in real difficulty financially and I’m not sure how humiliating them into the bargain would somehow magic up the money. It would in any case he simply inhumane.
I once had occasion to sit in Campbeltown court for an afternoon and Argyll & Bute Council Council Tax cases took up the first two hours. Case after case was dismissed by the judge as incompetent, most often when the defaulter showed the documentation proving they had either paid or were entitled to a rebate. At the end of their considerable list, the solicitors representing the council were told to return to the council with the message that if they continued to take up court time, week after week, with their mistakes he would hold them in contempt.
Taking the Council’s word for who owes them what is sometimes as dodgy as believing their theory on Grant Aided Expenditure. That said, my own experience of that department has been good. It may, however, be because I haven’t defaulted and am not in need of the practical advice and assistance that would result in payment.
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Anne Baird.
That may be so but there will also be people who can well afford to pay their council tax but choose not to.
In today’s news the councillor for Inverness South has been jailed for 12 months for receiving benefits of £43,000 when he was not entitled to them. Hopefully he will also be struck off as a councillor as he will not be able to attend council meetings or represent his electorate.
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Treblet, it’s often the rich who decide that people can “well afford” to pay things. It’s often down to an over simplistic and uninformed view of poverty.
Re the councillor, I think it’s unlikely that he’d find a party to put him up as a candidate in future. I know the SNP has a vetting process and assume other parties have something similar. I’m not at all sure what happens now that he’s been jailed but recall several Glasgow councillors continuing in office whilst in Barlinnie. I fervently hope it’s not possible now.
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Anne.
I have just heard on the BBC Scotland that the Inverness South councillor who claimed benefits of £43,000 had £250,000 of savings. I would have put him in jail and thrown the keys away. I hope he barred from ever having a job in public life.
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Sorry the last sentance should read.
I hope is barred from ever having a job in public life.
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Treblet, I’m totaly with you on that one. Anyone who has £250,000 in savings ought to be thinking about what charities they can support rather than cheating for more money. It’s entirely the sort of thing that encourages the belief that all benefit claimants are living the life of Reilly when in fact most of them are genuine and would give their eye teeth to be able to work. He does these people a grave disservice too.
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… that’s totally with two Ls
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Making 12 instalments rather than 10 is an excellent incentive to pay by Direct Debit. I can’t understand why any local authority wouldn’t do this.
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