Both of the Scottish parliamentary constituencies involving Argyll saw drama and uncertainty as the election process rolled to its conclusion yesterday (6th May 2011).
The background to the election was the serious and ongoing UK financial crisis following the international collapse of financial institutions in the Autumn of 2008.
The local background was the profound unrest across Argyll and the Isles of the competence and conduct of Argyll and Bute Council, relating to financial management and a series of controversial school closure proposals.
Both the national and the local context were also informed by deep dissatisfactions with the Liberal Democrats. They were under attack by their own supporters for going into coalition with the Tories in the Westminster government; and locally they had lost the trust of constituents for their conduct in the school closures. The alienation from the electorate caused by this matter also affected the Conservatives, for reasons discussed below.
Argyll and Bute
The Argyll and Bute seat had a very experienced field of candidates, two recent MSPs including a senior government minister; three with local government experience, two currently and one a former Leader of Argyll and Bute Council; and a seasoned Independent.
Of the six, only one, the Highlands and Islands MSP and Conservative candidate, Jamie McGrigor, had stood for the constituency before. The sitting MSP, the SNP’s Jim Mather, who had served as Enterprise, Energy and Tourism Minister in the SNP’s first administration at Holyrood from 2007, was standing down.
It was all to play for.
The result was a magisterial win from the SNPs Michael Russell. He saw his majority of 8,543 multiply his party’s 2007 majority by more than ten times; with a 16% rise in share of the vote, taking 50.6% of the overall vote in a field of 6 candidates.
The area the columnist John MacLeod called ‘the mighty Argyll’ in the aftermath of the 2007 election spoke again on 5th May 2011.
This story was Scotland’s story on election night – but with a local accelerator.
On a disastrous night for the Liberal Democrats, the collapse of their vote in Argyll and Bute was the greatest in Scotland at 19.6%. Interestingly, it was the then Party Leader, Tavish Scott’s vote – with a 19.2% loss – that came closest to taking this unenviable wooden spoon.
Where Scott had a massive enough majority to ride out this scale of loss and still keep his seat, Councillor Alison Hay, a first time candidate and fighting to retake the seat for her party from the SNP, would have been facing a tough challenge anyway.
As a member both of the ruling coalition of Argyll and Bute Council and of its Executive, Alison Hay had personally voted twice to send forwards to statutory consultation each of two successive sets of school closure proposals that were clearly unable. The latest one is currently in process.
This was a catastrophic failure of judgment and an indefensible set of personal priorities, for both of which she has not been forgiven in what became and remains an Argyll-wide set-piece confrontation.
The problem was never her stance per se but her willingness to set aside the evidential requirements of the law which had not and have not been met; and her parallel willingness to disregard clearly competent evidence of the fundamental flaws in the proposals. These should have rendered them unfit to proceed.
It is this local and personal situation that created the additional scale of LibDem vote loss in Councillor Hay’s low fourth place in her party’s single worst result in the country.
This has been a sad episode because Alison Hay is neither an incompetent nor a dishonourable person. She was guilty, under pressure, of very poor judgment on an issue that determines the very survival of the rural communities that are the stuff of Argyll; and she has paid for it.
There is no doubt whatsoever that others guilty of the same misjudgment and worse, will themselves be brought up short by the Argyll and Bute electorate at the 2012 local government elections.
The Conservative candidate, the experienced Highlands and Islands List MSP, Jamie McGrigor, personally a long standing supporter of rural schools, fell foul of the reputational damage done to his party by its two local councillors, both, as townsfolk, energetically and irrationally supporting the rural school closure proposals.
It is a hard irony for Jamie McGrigor that these councillors represent Helensburgh, which comes under the Dumbarton and not the Argyll and Bute constituency. The anger of the Argyll-wide electorate on the conduct of this matter does not recognise constituency boundaries.
The proof of the impact of this issue is that, in a year which has seen this energetic politician deliver tangible benefits to constituents – like, for example, the British Gas funding he initiated and facilitated for the Mid Argyll Swimning Pool – he lost 1% of his share of the vote. Rather than challenge Michael Russell, this saw him drop further back in his vote while – given the size of Russell’s majority, still taking his party into second place.
New to Argyll, the Labour candidate and Cowal resident, Mick Rice, who has served on Birmingham City Council, maintained the surprise third place for his party won by his colleague, David Graham, in the Westminster election of 2010.
With Labour utterly uninvolved in the school closures controversy by virtue of having no elected councillors in Argyll and Bute, Mick Rice added 0.8% to his party’s share of the vote compared to its last performance in fourth place in the Scottish Parliamentary election in 2007.
What now for Argyll and Bute?
With this emphatic victory, Mr Russell has proved both his own strengths for this constituency and the trust for his party built by his predecessor, Jim Mather.
Argyll and Bute will now be getting to know its new constituency MSP, discovering where his personal style takes him on the accessibility ladder, what his ideas are for Argyll, how doughtily he will fight for its interests. Argyll has never wanted favours – but it is mightily interested in justice and fairness – not always the same thing.
Argyll has grown to trust Mr Russell’s clarity of position on the issue of rural school closures. He reinforced how constructive this is in the offer he had made earlier and repeated to Argyll and Bute Council in his acceptance speech yesterday – which was heard on national television. He is happy – keen indeed, to sit down with councillors and staff to help to develop a strategy for the crucial rural schools in the area. Argyll feels it needs its new MSP to remain as Education Secretary.
The first local test of the new SNP Government, with its historic overall majority will come on this very issue. There are several ways of looking at the issue.
If the new administration and Mr Russell are determined to confront the efforts of Argyll and Bute Council and their representative body, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities (COSLA) to subvert the express purpose of the 2010 Schools Act, he will return as Education Secretary. (Argyll and Bute Council are not, of course, alone among local authorities in this subversion, although their behaviour has been the most flagrant.)
If the new government, despite its overall majority, is minded instead to make some compact with the institutional Scotland that simply kept stalling, sitting out the SNP’s first term of office in the certainty that it would be its last, then Mr Russell will be given a different post.
On the other hand, having an MSP – who will be a senior minister in some department in any case – who is not primarily responsible for education at government level could be a decided advantage. An Education Secretary would be constrained by the need to demonstrate at all times that he/she is objective and has no personal vested interest in the result.
If Argyll’s MSP were to be free to fight its case from the position of a department other then Education, it could be a decided advantage. He would be free to lobby and to dispute in a way that, as Education Secretary, he could not be. He would have his expertise from his time as Education Secretary to draw upon in Argyll’s interests. He could not, in these circumstances, be accused of listening to special pleading or of favouring one area because it happens to be his constituency. He would and could be single-mindedly working with the community – and not be accused of vested interest.
All of us, the school campaigners, Argyll and Bute Council and COSLA will soon know the answer to the direction of Mr Russell’s ministerial career.
The Dumbarton result
The Dumbarton constituency and its sitting Labour MSP, Jackie Baillie, who was her party’s Health Spokesperson in the last parliament, had a manic final few days before the vote on Thursday 5th May 2011.
By this time, her party’s polls – and those of her competitors – were showing the coming meltdown of the Liberal Democrat vote.
As we reported at the time, on the east coast and in the north and north west Highlands and Islands, this was largely going to the SNP, but in Dumbarton it was all over the place.
These votes were there to be fought for and without at least her share of them, Jackie Baillie, facing a popular SNP competitor who was fighting an energetic campaign, was all but certain to lose her seat. Her party, whose strategic use of the regional list, was one of the factors in its loss of so many MSPs, had not put her on the West of Scotland regional list for the second vote. If she lost the constituency, she was out of Holyrood.
The result of the election in her constituency proved Jackie Baillie’s mettle. She took the seat – with an increased majority and must have won most of the freefall LibDem vote from her SNP competitor.
The Conservatives lost 3.8% of their Dumbarton vote on the night. That will not have formed part of Ms Baillie’s 4.5% increase in the Labour share of the vote. It will have gone towards the SNP’s 5% increased share.
This left the LibDem loss of 8.3% to contribute 4.5% to Jackie Baillie, the remaining 1.2% to the SNP’s overall 5% gain and 1.7% to the Independent.
What now for Dumbarton and the Labour Party?
Jackie Baillie’s last minute digging deep to campaign to win and her success in doing so shows her toughness as well as her respected capability.
When she appeared on the BBC’s results programme during the day on Friday 6th May, it was clear that sleep had been in short supply – but she had done what she needed to do.
The other proof of her independent mindedness came during that programme. While other Labourites were almost competing to beat the mea culpa drum the loudest, Jackie Baillie toughed that out too. She pointed out that the party, as with her own result, has increased its vote in several constituencies. She said that the matter was not a simple one and that no safe conclusions could be drawn until the results were carefully analysed.
We have been working almost nonstop on our own seat-by-seat, list-by-list analysis of what happened in Thursday’s vote and hope to publish on that and on situational analyses on Sunday 8th May.
Iain Gray, Leader of the Labour party in Scotland, did not choose to wait, as Mrs Baillie had done, before making his judgment. He announced on Friday, as the results tally was completed, that he would stand down as leader in September this year, after initiating a review of the party’s performance and its structures.
Along with Malcolm Chisholm, Sarah Boyack and Hugh Henry, it is being said that Jackie Baillie will enter the eventual contest to lead her party.
She should do. She has now also shown the capacity for cool headed toughness under pressure that would play well in what lies ahead for Labour.
But if she is successful and if she is to rebuild her party to make it fit for the purposes of serving the self-confident Scotland we all saw emerge in Thursday’s vote, she will need to temper with vision the pragmatism that saw her toe the Labour line and vote against the SNP government’s proposal to legislate on a minimum pricing of alcohol.
This was designed to combat the binge drinking that is an acknowledged disease in contemporary Scotland. It was supported vigorously by all the bodies representing health professionals and by the police. It was needed.
But the Labour party was seduced by the rich and muscular drinks industry lobby and distracted by its own mantra of doing the opposite to the SNP at all costs. It took the decision to vote against the proposal.
Jackie Baillie voted with her party. Malcolm Chisholm, a former Labour Health Minister at Holyrood, voted against the party line and for the SNP’s proposed minimum pricing of alcohol.
A modern Scottish Labour Party will need to move strongly away from the machine politics that has left it something of a Stalinist dinosaur. Can Jackie Baillie raise her game to this challenge? That will be her test.
On the school closures issue, she has been a buttress against institutional vandalism for the threatened schools in Helensburgh and Lomond for which, as MSP for Dumbarton, she is responsible.
The only school in the area remaining under threat in the current closure proposal list is Luss School on Loch Lomond, Mrs Baillie has said unequivocally – and the parents of the children at Luss are fully aware of her commitment, that she will continue to work with them as she has already done – and that, whatever it takes, they will win. Her performance in saving her own seat and in increasing her majority in the process, against all the odds, is proof that, whatever it takes, she can win. Luss can take heart.
Congratulations to Jackie Baillie, she knows her audience well. The Dumbarton constituency was one of the few places in Scotland where Labour’s negativity and scare-mongering was successful. I agree with her analysis that there is no simple interpretation of how the vote shifted in this area. There was a large tactical vote in both directions – positive and negative. The “fears” that got Jackie elected will now have to be addressed in a more positive and constructive manner especially if her Leadership bid is successful. With five years of stable, principled, co-operative and constructive SNP Government to come this is the opportunity for Labour to begin to engage constructively in a better future for Scotland.
Local Government funding after the council tax freeze. Defence policy after independence (Scotland will have independence in some form but will not be separate and isolated). Schools policy at a national level (as Jackie will have no sway over local decisions).
Best story of my day at the polling station. Labour activist very exercised and aggressive over posters around polling station (actually SNP ones couldn’t be read from polling place but Labour’s could). SNP activist relaxed as it would have no effect on voters. SNP activist “Does it really matter? but if you have a complaint make it to the Polling Officer who has already checked the area for posters. There is no need to be nasty about it”. Labour activist ” And there is no need for you to be so nice about it”.
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Newsroom…
“Along with Malcolm Chisholm, Sarah Boyack and Hugh Henry, it is being said that Jackie Baillie will enter the eventual contest to lead her party”
Do not write off Ken Macintosh. He is not your typical Scottish Labour politician but perhaps this is what they need now. He is intelligent, articulate, consummate in front of the cameras and can respond with a humour and a quick wit in difficult situations. I have had many dealings with Ken on Education Committee and have been more than impressed by his willingness to scrutinise evidence. He won his constituency seat in face of boundary changes which should have made it very difficult to survive. If Scottish Labour insist on carrying on with Hugh Henry types they will condemn themselves to a generation in opposition. That said I share your admiration of Jackie Baillie’s undoubted abilities. Pulling Dumbarton out of the “tsunami” can only add to her reputation. When I first started working with MSP’s I was as green as they come. Jackie would regularly advise me via email tennis at one in the morning as to the course I should take – I am not even a constituent of hers.
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For Sandy Longmuir: Saw Ken Macintosh on the BBC count programme on Friday with Sally Magnusson and Glenn Campbell – and he was clearly very able and with flashes of humour that looked interesting. Generationally, he could be the right bet.
We’ve heard that there’s a body of opinion in Holyrood that the Presiding Officer job should go to Labour this time – and it would suit Jackie Baillie’s procedural intelligence.
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Sandy, I do not believe that Malcolm Chisholm is at the races as far as having a chance of being elected as the Labour Leader is concerned. Gray was bad enough but Chisholm would be just as bad. He is a nice guy but totally ineffectual. Also, given his record, how could he expect his colleagues to be disciplined? It appears that Hugh Henry has indicated that he is not interested in the Leader’s position. He is likely to be one of those who have their eye on the Presiding Officer’s position. Unfortunately there are indications that the SNP want to take that position which would be wrong. The favourites for the Labour Leader’s position must be Jackie Baillie and Ken MacIntosh. The problem for Ken MacIntosh is that he has no ministerial experience.
If the SNP don’t grab it, then the choice could be between Hugh Henry, Tavish Scott and Sarah Boyack. The problem for Tavish Scott is that if he becomes Presiding Officer, the Lib Dem Group fall below five and they would therefore not have a place on the Parliamentary Bureau which organises parliamentary business.
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For FRANK: We’ve been picking up rumours that Tavish Scott intends to go for the Presiding Office post and. like you, our first reaction was not to believe it, that he woudn’t do that to his party. Would he?
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On a lighter note, those of a political persuasion and in view of what has happened in the past few days might be amused by the full page advert on the back page of today’s Sunday Herald.
The headline reads
DISCOVER a different world
Visit Orkney and Shetland
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For Neil Kay: Hilariously apposite. Well spotted and thanks for sharing it.
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One consequence of the election of Jackie Baillie is that Dumbarton has no representative within the corridors of national power. The SNP’s two list MSPs for West of Scotland both fought constituencies in East Renfrewshire and Inverclyde, and although I have no doubt they will be receptive to approaches by this area their natural involvement and centres of political gravity are elsewhere.
It is early days to make a definite judgement as to why Dumbarton did not follow the rest of Scotland and see large portions of erstwhile Liberal Democrat and Labour voters vote SNP.
We know that in 2007 the SNP lost Dumbarton because Labour won Helensburgh. Given the similar majority enjoyed by Jackie this time round it would be reasonable to suspect that yet again Jackie’s well rehearsed comments that without the nuclear facility there is no strategic reason for the Faslane Naval Base in a UK context.
It is well known that many people involved with or retired from the Base normally vote Liberal Democrat. The Base has provided local Liberal Democrat councillors.
With the election of an SNP government and the certainty of the Independence referendum plans must now be put in place to answer Jackie’s claim.
All shades of local opinion and decision makers mus work together to prepare an alternative strategy for the future development of Helensburgh and Lomond.
The First Minister is committed to the re-industrialisation of Scotland. This area has the expertise and facilities to meet that challenge. Have our political leaders?
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Newsroom, perhaps Tavish Scott doesn’t like what his party did to him!
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The point is, can you believe anything a Lib Dem tells you? I think not.
It may well be that the big bucks that are available and the kudos of being the Presiding Officer will come before loyalty to his Lib Dem colleagues in the Scottish Parliament. We know that Lib Dems will do almost anything for money and power.
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Frank – depends who the LibDem is – maybe you’ve forgotten Shirley Williams, who in terms of common sense, integrity and sheer intelligence leaves most people standing.
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Shirley Williams of course started out in Labour before setting up the Social Democrats. Anyway, there are lots of good Lib-Dems both past and present and many of them are just as horrified by the actions of some of their colleagues as the rest of us are.
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I am surprised that in an otherwise closely observed analysis of the election results above that nobody appears to have considered the “Faslane factor” that may have led some voters at least to place their marks down in favour of the pro -nuclear Ms Baillie. I offer this in tentative explanation-although not one I support or accept – to explain higher than average support of the Labour Party in this situation. Where Faslane is a significant employer in the constituency this would be a factor.
The SNP has consistently opposed the location of nuclear powered and nuclear armed submarines in a strategic situation close to the major population centre of Scotland. Their misgivings can only be given greater force by the capacity of our costly submarines to encounter difficulties wherever they venture. Astute appears to be singularly ill named.
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I can recall many years ago accompanying the sorely missed Michael Strathern to a out of season hustings at the village hall in Carradale just after Shirley Williams, as one of the Gang of Four, had bailed out of the Labour Party to help form the SDP. Ray Michie, as she then was, represented the Liberals , as they then were, and the spokesman for the Tories was Lord Balfour of Burleigh. I cannot recall if the Labour Party were represented. The meeting was organised and chaired by the hugely eccentric but vastly entertaining Naomi Mitchison who was well into her eighties. Come to think of it she probably represented Labour while chairing the meeting! We were afterwards entertained to an evening of memorable tales and reminiscence followed by bed and breakfast at Carradale House.
I still treasure the memory of having my breakfast kippers cooked by Lady Mitchison before the house party dispersed in their various directions.
Shirley Williams was a quite delightful guest and showed a great interest in the Scottish political landscape. I would certainly suggest that at that time she sacrificed high office in the Labour Party on a point of principle although I am sure she would have hoped for more than the SDP ever acheived and I cannot imagine that she is at all happy at where she is at present.
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I think you are wrong to claim some of the Conservative vote did not go to Jackie Baillie and I am willing to predict that we will see considerably more Unionist co operation to stem the Nationalist tide……..
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kintyre1, I am enjoying the nationalist tide and, according to the ballot boxes, it will take more than co-operation between the unionists to stem it. The electorate has already rejected all most of the scare stories and more of the same isn’t likely to change their minds.
I spent twenty odd years accepting, and not resenting, the will of my fellow Scots when they disagreed with me. Ian Gray, Tavish Scott and Annabelle Goldie manage it too, and with some grace to boot. Why not try it?
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Kintyre Too
Are you suggesting we all don jackboots and fall in behind Salmond ?
You should consider the case of Peter Robinson of Northern Ireland to see how public attitudes can change quickly .
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kintyre1, No, I’m just suggesting that democracy has change as a feature and we can all learn to live peacefully with it and be as positive as we can. I’m able, for instance, to say I’m sorry to see Annabelle Goldie go as she conducted herself with good humour and was constructive throughout the last parliament.
Jackboots? That’s just deeply strange. Family members died ensuring they never got to these shores. The Peter Robinson connection is a struggle to make. Which Scottish party leader is it that you think is going to emulate his comeback? Haven’t they all resigned?
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For Treblet: Well done. This is a seriously good score – and exemplary. Nothing happens if you don’t try to make it happen.
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can no one tell me why Arrocher comes under AB boundery yet we have Dumbarton MSP
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Parliamentary boundaries are set by the Boundary Commission for Scotland and not by Local Authorities. The Scottish Parliament (Constituencies) Act 2004 requires the commission to review boundaries with the aim of having 70 mainland Parliamentary constituencies. As there are only 29 mainland Local Authorities and the constituencies aim to be roughly the same size in terms of population it is impossible for them to fit in with Council boundaries. As to exactly where they draw the lines on the map to achieve this, it is the Boundary Commission you need to speak to.
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Are you wanting Arrochar to move with Luss back to West Dunbartonshire Andrew? We call it a “Viable Alternative”
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Newsroom… do you know why Jackie Baillie is Arrochar MSP? When it is in A&B
According to our devolved Governments site:
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/msps/Constituency%202011/con-argy.htm
We should be represented in Holyrood by Mike Russel…
If no one in this constituancy elected JB how can she represent us in Edinburgh?
I’m confused… my postcode shows the following… but I’m not in West Dumbartonshire?
http://www.writetothem.com/who?pc=g837ad
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The Argyll & Bute council constituency and the Westminster Parliamentary constituency are the same but may be different by the next Westminster election. The Scottish Parliamentary constituency is already different and is smaller than the A&B Council constituency. The premise is that all constituencies in a parliament should have similar numbers of voters in them. The end result is utterly confusing for the voters.
In short, you will have the same Council and MP as me but a different MSP.
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For Colin: It’s quite mad, really – as Kintyre Too says.
We thought the boundary between the two constituencies – which does make nonsense of the consistency of Argyll and Bute – was at the head of Loch Long but including Succoth in Dumbarto. We now understand (from a well informed site reader) that the boundary is up near Rest and Be Thankful, so Ardgartan is also in Dumbarton.
The one bright spot in the confusion is that both Michael Russell and Jackie Baillie are senior and first class MSPs, so Argyll and Bute, as a local authority area, is well served.
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Thanks Kintyre & Newsroom, I appreciate the explanation. It is very confusing hence the reason for my fathers initial question.
I’m still wondering why the move from the head of the lock to up at the Rest? Does anyone know the reasoning?
The way I understand it the original decisions cam before the boundary changes came from the fact that Dumbarton’s (Labour led) No Nuclear policy upset the Torries so they in turn changed the goal posts (boundary) as usual, so that the decisions effecting the running and dangerous and unsightly bases at both Faslane and Coulport were taken out of the control of the aforementioned Labour led council area (and commy working classes) and moved into the more conservative Argyll (no bute at the time) area….
As they already had a nuclear base (in the Holy Loch) it wouldn’t bother the commoners there very much I suppose was the thinking!
I remember being driven from Glasgow to Dunoon as a child for the games and the ‘Welcome to Argyll’ sign was just before Succoth at the head of the loch like you say… now it is round at the entrance to Duck Bay marina so I am completely perplexed as to why we are still represented in Holyrood by a WB MSP… nothing against Jackie, she is as you say senior and effective locally but has she been elected by the constituants of my area to represent us in Edinburgh?
Thanks in advance for clearing this up
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While I share Colin Graham’s opposition to the presence of nuclear weapons I cannot understand why he should think that anyone would be concerned about Dumbarton’s (Labour led) No Nuclear policy (whatever that is ) and the thought that this should upset anyone at all.
Surely he must be aware that the most strident supporter of the Nuclear presence at Faslane and Coulport is the Labour MSP Jackie Baillie and that any opposition from the Scottish (sic) Labour Party to nuclear weapons and nuclear power generation is confined to smoke filled back rooms and certainly has not been evident in the public domain for many years.
While the Lomond area of Argyll & Bute Council area is presently part of the Dumbarton constituency for the Scottish Parliament I predict that further confusion will arise as the Westminster parliament seeeks within the next few years to cobble together a smaller number of constituencies from Scotland to take account of a reduced number of MPs to represent Scotland. Apart from the two island constituences of the Western Isles and the Northern Isles all other constituences will be enlarged, crossing traditional boundaries, to accommodate this change. It would appear that no account will be given to the geography of constituences like Argyll & Bute when those changes are made and further confusion will arise.
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Whatever the confusion, the Holyrood and Westminster constituency boundaries still – at present – produce governments better than a one party state, or a supposedly democratic authority that seems to have been suborned by a cabal of self interested politicians freezing out the rest and running things like a banana republic – could we have a competition for a new sign on the A82 at the council boundary? (I recollect one of the London boroughs being referred to as the ‘marxist republic of Brent’ amongst other less complementary titles)
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When the boundary changes were made Ian Lang was Scottish Gauleiter.
I seem to recollect that one of his pearls of wisdom at the time was that by moving Faslane out of Dumbarton and into Argyll and Bute he was simply ensuring that Dumbarton council could achieve its aim of becoming a nuclear free zone….
…but I don’t think his concept was quite what the council had in mind!
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Has Robert Wakeham looked at Kilmory recently?
“A supposedly democratic authority that seems to have been suborned by a cabal of self interested politicians freezing out the rest and running things like a banana republic” is a fairly accurate approximation of what we have at present.
What you put on the sign could be the basis of an entertaining competition
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I suppose someone’s got to kick off with a suggested sign for A82/Kilmory. I’m sure this will be followed and bettered.
ABC–Democratic and Welcoming by 2012
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For bill jardine
I take exception to the use of the word Gauleiter in connection with Ian Lang .
Ian Lang was elected to the House of Commons at four general elections by the people of Galloway.
You should apologise for your disgraceful remark .
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hotbird – what about Argyll & Bute – Education, Education…….oops…..
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You are now entering Argyll & Bute. Democracy stops here
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Argyll & Bute
Twinned with Uzbekistan
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Very funny responses… cracked me up…
Well done.
Ken, I think you either misread my post or I didn’t make myself very clear but given no one else jumped to the wrong conclusion…..
Reread and repost if you feel the need.
Can I enter the sign comp too hehe
Welcome To Argyll & Bute
ABC: Autocracy Before Commonwealth
Drive Safe
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For Kintyre1:
Considering the undiluted bile you have heaped on those who disagree with your views on this website, you are optimistic beyond belief if you really expect an apology from me.
I refer to your earlier posting in which you pose the question “are you suggesting that we all don jackboots and fall in behind Alec Salmond?”, which clearly implies that Mr Salmond is of the same persuasion as the late Herr Hitler.
The words ‘glass houses’ and ‘stones’ spring to mind……
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Re the use of the term “Gauleiter” I thought I would check with Wikipedia on the origins of the word to decide if it was appropriate to use with Ian lang. Here is what is says:
A Gauleiter (German pronunciation: [ˈɡaʊlaɪtə]) was the party leader of a regional branch of the NSDAP (more commonly known as the Nazi Party) or the head of a Gau or of a Reichsgau. It has since become a term used to refer to any overbearing local official, especially one prone to the dictatorial use of political or bureaucratic power.
I always thought Ian Lang a fairly decent and easy going type who did stick up for Scotland as Secretary of State so Bill’s adherence of the title to Mr Lang is probably inappropriate (though I know what he was getting at). However, I can think of a few in ABC to whom the modern definition could be applied!
Bill’s comments about Kintyre 1 are more apposite: K1 has not only referred to jackboots as mentioned but also to concentration camps. I suspect Ian Lang would actually have more in common with many of the others here than he would with Kintyre1.
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Do you mean to tell me that those two eejits were not just fictional caricatures in ‘Spitting Image’ ???
Sorry for my flippant remark but that is pretty much representative of my feelings towards them and how far removed they were from the views and needs of the working class people of west central Scotland I grew up alongside.
It probably would have been better for us if they and her entire cabinet were fictional for all the good they done us!
The only comforting thought that I have in relation to these people is that Karma won’t pass them by and that they (like Thatcher) will live long and torturously painful lives (both mentally and physically) well into old age…. vile creatures that they all are
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Bad luck Colin – Sir Malcolm Rifkind now represents Chelsea, Fulham & Kensington at Westminster, where he chairs the Intelligence and Security Committee. As such he pops up fairly regularly in the media, and he also seems to be busy with other committee work and business and consultancy appointments. No sign of a ‘torturously painful’ life there.
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Judging by your remarks Colin Graham you need look no further than the nearest mirror to catch sight of ‘ a vile creature ‘
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Seen that Robert, they all seem to be crawling back out the wood work with our new generation of leaches back at the helm down south unfortunately!
Theres still time, hope keeps the soul alive….
Kintyre1…
love you xx
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p.s. Kintyre1…
Why no response to Mr Jardines very well put put down of your ‘exception’ to his ‘Gauleiter’ comment?
I’ve read a fair few of your comments and bit my tongue each time, more out of pity for you than anything…. why do you start verbal fights and run away?
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