MacFadyen negotiates solution to Ardrishing-Lochgilphead school walk assessment
published this on 4:12 pm, Thursday, 4th February, 2010Community News| Local Government| Schools| Walking | Comments (rss) | Respond | Ping |
Senior Council officer, Malcolm MacFadyen, has stepped in to bring about a welcome commonsense compromise to the stand off on the procedure for reassessing the route that children from Ardrishaig must currently walk to get to school in Lochgilphead.
As we reported earlier today, Council officers had been holding firm to their intention to assess only the East Bank Road and Brackley Park points and to drive between the two rather than walk the route together with community council representatives. This would have enabled intermediate points of possible risk to be mutually addressed.
We now understand that Malcolm MacFadyen, who played a constructive role at the stakeholders’ discussion meeting on the Mid Argyll Swimming Pool issue, has consulted his colleague Stewart Turner and an approach which will be acceptable to everyone has been agreed.
Stewart Turner explained that the two specific traffic assessments outlined in the correspondence to which we referred earlier (East Bank Road and Brackley Park crossing), are to ensure compliance with the West of Scotland Road Safety Forum Guidelines for the conduct of safety assessments.
Once these two key assessments have been completed, officers will then walk along the rest of the route, presumably with Ardrishaig Community Council representatives, examining the points of additional concern to the community.
This has been a constructive intervention and bodes well for the future in presaging more generally open engagement with the community.
Both sides in the Council / Community relationship will benefit from seeing that they’re on the same side – Argyll’s side – and working to stop seeing the other as ‘the enemy’.
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February 6th, 2010 at 6:09 pm
I fail to see how we can be on “Argyll’s” side, which to me only makes sense when cost cutting comes into it. Surely we should be on the “pupil’s” side and on the side of “safety” by realising that walking inches from a 40mph trunk road frequented by heavy goods like log lorries on an extremely narrow pavement is not satisfactory. Surely the width of the pavement should also feature in an assessment. If the pavement was 6″ wide it would still seem to qualify under the present assessment criteria. I have long been campaigning for a totally impartial, independant risk assessment of this route rather than the same assessors paying lipservice to the West of Scotland Road Safety Forum Guidelines.
February 6th, 2010 at 6:17 pm
For Lynne Girdwood:
We understand what you’re saying, Lynne – and it demonstrates just how divided are the people of Argyll from their Council and, by mistaken extension, from Argyll itself.
In this case, the pupils’ interests are Argyll’s interests. Community and Council should stand together on that side.
February 6th, 2010 at 8:17 pm
It is always better to talk.
There is longstanding problem in Argyll and Bute however and it’s result of a succession of “independent” run councils. With very little serious scrutiny in these councils (as there is no coherent or coordinated opposition much of the time) officials tend to be able to assume too much power and end up controlling council functions when in fact they are actually employed to effect the decisions that are rightfully made by elected councillors.
Despite all the brave bluster Scotland’s independent councils tend to huddle at the bottom of the ratings when the Audit Commission reports annually.
February 7th, 2010 at 3:53 pm
The reason for the council reassessing these 2 crossing points is because, unbelievably, when the route was first assessed a traffic count was not done. The council went to great lengths, using crossing time formulae from the West of Scotland Road Safety Forum Guidelines to argue that the crossing at Brackley was safe for pupils. Also, they think generously, give the pupils a ONE second thinking time, before crossing. Of course this is completely irrelevant given that no one bothered to find out if there was actually a gap in the traffic long enough for the 80 Ardrishaig pupils to cross. The pavement being under 1 metre wide in places also doesn’t seem to concern the council greatly. Malcolm MacFadyen has now stepped in, I suppose after 2 years he must be sick of hearing about Ardrishaig parents’ concerns for their childrens safety. David McEwen Hill has a very good point and it will be interesting to hear the outcome of tomorrows assessment and its repercussions.
February 7th, 2010 at 9:14 pm
Interesting. Is this the only place in Argyll where pupils have to walk to school? Not saying that the route should not be re-assessed but in your earlier article you say
“The Council has refused to pay for the bus travel that would see these young people transported to school safely, drily and in a fit state to start learning.”
Surely every community in Argyll could argue this point?
February 7th, 2010 at 10:16 pm
For Hughie: the issue is that the route is along the A83 trunk road from Glasgow to Campbeltown which carries a lot of traffic, including timber lorries en route to the pier at Ardrishaig itself. Between Ardrishaig and Lochgilphead the road is narrow. There is a speed limit which is not universally observed because much of the road seems open and drivers are seduced into unconsciously raising their speeds. There are blind spots and acceleration points where parents are concerned that young children are at risk.
By including the sentence you mention, we probably blurred the real issue.
February 7th, 2010 at 11:55 pm
Newsroom, thanks for your reply and yes some of the report did blur the real issue.
The problem I imagine that the Council may well see is if they set a precedent in mid Argyll then they will have to follow suit everywhere else. There are similar problems in Campbeltown. Kids staying in Stewarton for example have to either get a lift or pay for public transport or walk along a narrow pavement where the road is set to the national speed limit of 60mph!
February 8th, 2010 at 6:35 pm
In my opinion, no child should be expected to walk alongside a 60mph road to get to school and as the primary school limits have just been increased, we may find a lot more children having to do this. As for the reassessment of the Ardrishaig to Lochgilphead route, council officials did not walk it this morning, nor elected Councillors (preferring to go in cars), only Ardrishaig Community Councillors walked the route. Council officials did not even wait for them to catch up to do a traffic count when they arrived, they simply did the count and left. Malcolm MacFadyen was present and didn’t seem to find a problem with this, so his idea of a “commonsense compromise”, it certainly was not, as none of them addressed the issue of the very narrow footpath.
February 8th, 2010 at 10:48 pm
Dissapointed that Lynne did not give me a phone call to clarify her concerns about today. Having walked the route with Councillor Alison Hay on one occassion, having done a personal traffic count i had already completed this part of the exercise. My function there today was as an observer to ensure the questions posed by the community council were addressed. Wheither the community council agree with the findings will be a matter of debate at the next meeting when a report will be submitted. We all mustered at EastBank Road at the start of the morning. Brian Rattray and Malcolm McFadyen were available for any questions. 2 of the community councillors along with a member of the public walked the route one observed the officers taking the gap times between cars passing at Brackley and the rational for this was explained in front of one of the community councillors and me. Further areas of concern were then examined which was the crossing at the corran roundabout and then back to the area of “Very Narrow Footpath”at the Ardrishaig Bowling green. At all times at least one community councillor was able to pose the questions they wanted. This is only my observation of what had happened as i was there to witness this. Lynne already has mentioned 2 of these areas of concern which she felt were not undertaken which was the narrow pavement and the gap times at Brackley both of which i can assure you were actually done wheither the community council agree again as i have said will be up to them. I hope this clarifies what actually happened today.
February 9th, 2010 at 12:01 am
Lynne. How many children are actually walking this route? Surprised parents are letting their children walk as far regardless of the road.
February 9th, 2010 at 5:28 pm
Hughie, in answer to your question, no children walk this route, which in Alan Reid’s words “speaks volumes”. No parent in their right mind would force their child to walk this long, problematic route, I am no exception and therein lies the issue that Ardrishaig parents have no other choice than to pay for transport or drive their children themselves. At 60p per pupil journey, £1.20 per day, £6.00 per week, it mounts up. Having 3 children, I will pay close to £4,500 just to get them to school. I understand if Dougie is disappointed that I didn’t phone him personally concerning the reassessment. I too am disappointed that for 2 years this issue has been debated backwards and forwards despite all 3 local councillors backing Ardrishaig parents as well as our MP, a petition of 956 signatures and a meeting of 50 Ardrishaig parents voicing their opinions, but all with apparently little power to effect change. Maybe there is some truth in what David McEwen Hill comments and when does the council actually take heed of the views of the public?
February 9th, 2010 at 8:11 pm
Lynne, I assume your £4,500 is based on your kids school life? While I sympathise with your costs you are no different than hundreds (if not thousands?) of families across Argyll who have to pay for the children’s travel to school. It just isn’t feasible for a lot of kids to walk to school. I guess that is the price you have to pay for where you stay so not sure why you think families in Ardrishaig should be treated differently?
February 10th, 2010 at 6:22 pm
You’re absolutely right, Hughie, about hundreds if not thousands of families being in a similar position in Argyll. The thing is, if we were served by Glasgow, Renfrewshire, Orkney, Shetland, Clackmannanshire, East Ayrshire, East Dunbartonshire, East Lothian, Falkirk or Fife councils (to name only a few), our children would qualify for free transport because all of these councils (and more), have realised that it is a step too far to ask children to walk these kinds of distances, in our kinds of weather, with heavy school bags, on narrow pavements, the full 3 miles to school. All of the mentioned councils have lowered their limits to 1.5 or 2 miles. Argyll and Bute Council are in the minority of Scottish Councils that insist children walk the full 3 miles. Councils have the ability to set the walking distance within the 3 mile limit but ours seem to put budget before safety and sense. As a matter of interest, the Ardrishaig route used to be free and it is now the only outlying village from Lochgilphead who have to pay. I can’t comment on any of the other routes like Stewarton, but no child should be walking on a route with no pavements at all. Dougie, I’d like to thank you for being very thorough in the latest assessment.
February 10th, 2010 at 8:46 pm
Perhaps there lies your argument. Look and argue the case for the whole Council. Arguing for your own patch won’t win as it means changing the rest who have’t argued the case. If however you look at the whole of Argyll and get other villages, parents on your side then your argument takes a whole new dimension and the comparison to other Councils carries even more weight. Didn’t appreciate it was as far as three miles. Good luck. Stewarton is 1.5 miles from Campbeltown, probably a couple of miles from the secondary shool. How far is Dunbeg from Oban’ secondary school? Thinking of larger settlements.
February 25th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
Dear All,
The problem of children walking along unsafe, unsuitable roads is a country wide problem not just limited to specific councils irrespective of the distance away from school to qualify for free transport.
My children attend a small country school (15 pupils). There are no pavements not even outside the school. The speed limit at the school is 30mph reduced to 20mph at the start & end of each school day. This speed limit is exceed by drivers of all types of vehicles at all times of day. 2 pupils walk about 50yds to school, the rest use school transport (6) and by car (7). I’m one of those who transport my kids by car. We live 1.7 miles away from the school and so do not qualify for free school transport. There is also doubt as to wether I would qualify for a paid pass for my kids as the bus doesnot currently travel my route to pick up any pupils who do qualify. There are no pavements and on the majority of the route no verge either. The majority of the route is a 60mph limit with the last 200yds being 30mph and the 50yds in front of the school being 20mph at school in/out times. Just after the 30mph road sign there are 2 right angled bends with very limited visibility, no usable verge and a junction right on the apex of one of the bends. I myself when driving round this bend crawl round it as I’m terrified of meeting oncoming pedestrians or another vehicle cutting the corner, (others who do not have kids at the school are not so considerate). I do have a friend who ocassionaly walks with a 4 year old and toddler in a pram and it would be only too easy to run her and her 2 pre-school kids over. It has been deemed too dangerous for the school bus to pick up the pupils outside the school gate so it is allowed to drive into the school yard. The 5 of us who pick up in cars are also allowed to bring our cars into the yard at pick up times. The kids supervised onto the bus and into the cars.
I have totally ruled out walking all or part of the route on safety grounds as there is no footpath/verge of any kind. What about accompanying them you might say?; well I would find the 2hrs (at least) walk each day would prevent my 2 younger kids from attending nursery (opposite direction) and they would have to accompany me on the journeys with my 2 older kids. At present there are different leaving times for P1-3 and P4-7 and not enough time to return home between times, so there would be much waiting around in all weathers. This might be good for my physical health (apart from the getting run over part) but my mental health would probably be worsened. An important factor is that car drivers are just not expecting to see pedestrians on these roads. I would dearly love my kids to travel on the school bus but the cost is prohibitive and I can transport my kids more cheaply and conveniently myself. Plus I wouldn’t get full use of that pass as the timimg and location afterschool activties require that I pick up from school and travel like the wind to get there in time. Needless to say I limit my kids participation in organised activities. A pass is £84 per pupil per year (therefore £168pa in total for me) rising to £220pa for a family pass when no.3 kid starts school next year. When no.4 kid starts 2 years after that then a family pass might be worth it for that one year only, even if my kids don’t use the bus all the time.
Well rant over!
My point is that all routes to school should be independently risk assessed, which would include the assessors walking the route. If that route is designated as too dangerous for a pupil to walk without adult supervision then it should be paid for by the council. I realise that in certain rare circumstances that could include ridiculously short distances which would have to be looked at individually or excluded by a having min 15 min journey time at child walking speed for the route to bea assessed.
ps I came across this site while looking for guidelines on how to carry out a risk assessment/factors to consider for a school route, believe me it’s not that easy to find and I’m still searching. Good luck with your situation.
March 15th, 2010 at 9:17 pm
Interesting to read the problems you are having. Renfrewshire has just changed their limit to 3 miles and we are having the same problems. A very unsafe route to school with a 60mph limit on two sections.
I wonder how many of your councillors would walk up to six miles a day to work and back,in the kind of weather we get. Saving money seems to be more important than keeping our children safe. Very short sighted and will cost them dearly in the long run.