Comment posted McGrigor slams HBOS on Islay businesses left beached by Susan Campbell.
The Royal Bank of Scotland moved their Islay Business Manager to Dunoon, from where the individual attends Islay’s Royal Bank branch monthly. It’s far from ideal, making accessing information and making changes much slower. Without being here full-time to see how businesses and their owners are faring on a day-to-day basis, ‘on the street’ as it were, it’s hard to see how a bank manager can truly know what’s going on within Islay’s economy.
HBOS business customers would be well advised to make every effort to keep their manager in Islay. A call centre will not know the business customers, and be unable to make informed decisions in collaboration with their customers.
Recent comments by Susan Campbell
- Contract awarded for upgrade of Scotland’s Bull Stud
knocknagael was a Department stud farm for a famous bloodline of Highland ponies too, until disbanded and stock sold (in the 1980s?) and there were one or two of the last stallions sold off in the displenishing as young colts which were still alive until fairly recently. - Take shelter at Inveraray”s BOWfest
Saw roadside signs for BOW but thought it might be for an archery event ??? - Beavers, clearances, sugar, slaves, social climbing and homecoming
Well, it’s just a pity that now people wanting to walk to visit the Fairy Isles, on a public pathway, are now forbidden to go by signs and a warden because it’s near the ‘beavers’ site’ !
The only notification ever ‘received’ was a short article in the Oban Times.Unfortunately, before the then deadline ahead of the heavy price increase (or fine?), there was no time to look into exactly why we are suddenly required to register our own septic tanks on our own property. Exactly what will this information be used for ?
Also, the online registration is far from straightforward, even for experienced internet users. It wasn’t made clear until one is into the online process that SEPA is going to charge you £1. for the privilege of filling in forms that THEY require.
Lagavulin open day saturday 23rd May
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The Royal Bank of Scotland moved their Islay Business Manager to Dunoon, from where the individual attends Islay’s Royal Bank branch monthly. It’s far from ideal, making accessing information and making changes much slower. Without being here full-time to see how businesses and their owners are faring on a day-to-day basis, ‘on the street’ as it were, it’s hard to see how a bank manager can truly know what’s going on within Islay’s economy.
HBOS business customers would be well advised to make every effort to keep their manager in Islay. A call centre will not know the business customers, and be unable to make informed decisions in collaboration with their customers.
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I was origionaly a Royal Bank Customer 10 years ago.
It was this decision by the Royal Bank, to have the business go through a call centre that made me change my Bank from the Royal to the Bank of Scotland.
At the time over 100 businesses changed from the Royal to the Bank of Scotland because they were having to deal with a call centre in Edinburgh which will just not work. I had an instance in 1997 when we had a Dive Centre on the Island and with £20,000 worth of bookings for divers one of the engines had a mojor breakdown which was going to cost £2,800 to fix.
Because we did not have a local bank manager (who understood our business) we had to deal with a call centre.
IT took 2 weeks for them to give us a decision before we could even authorise a repair.
This one delay from the Royal Bank cost us £6,000 in lost earnings.
NOW I feel this is going to happen all over again.
When will the banks Listen.
IF IT AINT BROKE DONT FIX IT!!!
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This will be disastrous for the islands economy.
It is a drastic cut in service, a dreadful misunderstanding of rural needs and a gross lack in customer care.
There have been numerous letters of complaint sent to The Head of Corporate Services, Mr Donald Kerr, but it would seem we are getting the silent treatment. Our only Business Banking Manager for Islay leaves this week. We do not have the luxury of switching to another bank on the island that offers a similar service.
I’m sure they would be much happier if we all moved to the central belt and the islands were left to the sheep!
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This move by HBOS will cause businesses to close on the Island. No matter what assurances we get from HBOS, there is no way on this earth that the Bank will ever fully understand what is happening here on the Island. It is no more than a ruthless and unwarranted cost cuttinf exercise. Agree with Gus – if it aint broke dont fix it
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We have been in touch with Argyll’s MSP, Jim Mather, on this serious matter and have just published an item on the information he has given us on the actions currently being taken by the Scottish Government. The link is:
http://forargyll.com/2009/11/mather-on-the-case-of-the-islay-banking-situation/
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I am really concerned for the island businesses this is a serious situation for the economy of the island. I have many times sat with my clients and the Bank of Scotland Bank Manager to discuss strategies on getting through difficult times. The majority of my clients bank with the Bank of Scotland and many of those changed from The Royal Bank of Scotland when the manager was removed. I cannot emphasise enough the effect this will have on the local economy. New businesses need the input of a manager who knows the island and it’s economic environment and the backing of your bank manager is eesential for those businesses to be developed and grow.
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I too moved from the Royal Bank to the Bank of Scotland when our local branch manager was replaced by a contact in Edinburgh We have enjoyed a good relationship with the Bank of Scotland and I feel this is as a result of our reationship with Islay who understands our business and the fluctuation in cash flow we expeirience here on Islay Its sad things are going this way Business on Islay will be the poorer for the changes
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I have found the services of the Bank of Scotland Manager invaluable in developing my relatively new business – I have been trading since 2004 – My decision to go with the Bank was not a difficult one as the manager had an outstanding reputation for good local business knowledge and recognised my businesses potential. I find face to face interaction invaluable as a Bank of Scotland Customer to ensure my business is developing at the right pace. I am really concerned for the islands businesses and if these struggle with financial problems and are only recognised as a number then it will have a knock on effect for businesses like mine.
I feel the Bank of Scotland are not looking to the future and not supporting rural communites with this decision.
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For Argyll is calling for the suspension of the departure from the island – due this week – of HBOS’s much respected local business banking manager, until this situation is resolved.
This is a crucial matter for the sustainability of Islay’s economy. The island has the internationally renowned distilleries of course. It also has a range of businesses in and supporting activity tourism and destination tourism – which are energetically shifting up several gears in a full-blooded entrepreneurial attempt to make a difference. It has renewable energy business at a major level on the near horizon.
It is commercially deranged to leave Islay businesses without the necessary spectrum of business banking advice – and it is fully lacking in any sense of corporate social responsibility even to contemplate it.
A city-based east coast call centre is in no way equipped to make informed and sensitive banking decisions on businesses operating in such a specifc context far beyond the experience of staff at such a place. At best they will be dangerously and expensively slow – as Gus Newman has said. At worst they will make wrong decisions, leaving good businesses either to wither or to fail.
The potential knock-on impact of this possibility on Islay’s economy and its very sustainability is such that the swiftest and most effective action needs to be taken by all concerned to reverse this foolish and short sighted decision.
We have drawn this matter to the attention of The Herald / Sunday Herald group.
It is important for Islay that this situation comes under nationwide scrutiny. It is important for Scotland to know of the profound damage that corporate irresponsibility can do to vigorous but vulnerable island communities.
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This move by Bank of Scotland is an utter disgrace and shows a complete lack of their understanding of the islands’ situation. Supposedly the bank has done this to improve customer service when all on the ground know that it is a cost cutting exercise, something which the bank has not got the honesty or courtesy to admit. Islay has its own micro-economy with a high level of interdependency between businesses; if one fails as a result of poor and inadequate support from the banks, then there will be a knock-on effect for others. There is no substitute for local knowledge, something which a faceless “advisor” in a call centre on the mainland cannot and will not have.
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Jamie McGrigor has just supported For Argyll’s call for the suspension of the business bank manager’s removal scheduled for this week and is sending a request for this action to the Bank as a follow up to his letter of last week.
The link is:
http://forargyll.com/2009/11/mcgrigor-supports-for-argyll-call-for-pro-tem-retention-of-islay-bank-manager/
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The Bank of Scotland or whatever they are now called and its hierarchy, probably based in Halifax, should well remember that we own most of their shares. Bearing this in mind, the Islay account holders should have been consulted. If they had been consulted, they would have known that Islay people would NOT have agreed with this decision to remove the Local Business Manager’s position. But the Royal Bank have done a similar thing and CalMac have trod on Ileachs over the naming of the the new boat for the Islay run. So are there lessons to be learned? Over to you MP’s and MSP’s.
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When I changed to the BoS it was because the RBS had us dealing with someone in Edinburgh who knew nothing about Islay and had never even been to the Island. I spoke to the local BoS business manager who managed to give us an excellent service with the change over and has continued with the same service all along. I think that if BoS check their records since our current manager took over as local business manager they will find that he has taken about 60% of the local business accounts. He has done this because he knows the local population and has the utmost respect of ALL his customers. After having service like this we take it bad having to deal with people on the mainland who mostly do not know us or the island . It feels like a conversation I had with a member of RBS who I told that we could be operating from henhouse on the Mull of Oa and he would only know what the computer told him. He agreed!! We do not want to go back to these days now with this bank.
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Disasterous decision by HBOS for the local community, economy and businesses both old and new!
Without face to face consultations with a branch manager who understands our small rural community, I fear this will have some serious repercussions on our local economy.
It makes me wonder whether my loyalty to HBOS over the last 25 years on both a personal and business level will continue!
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It is not easy to see how a bank can behave in a more insensitive
manner than this.
While they have bankrupted themselves paying bonuses that they
cannot justify and gleefully pocketed huge governmental subsidies,
they are busily reducing what they see as overheads, oblivious to the
fact that they are just reducing services to an unacceptably low level.
Islay is a fragile economy and needs all the assistance that it can
get. A local bank manager who understands local conditions is
essential, to make him redundant and cast the sop of a call centre
support system is offensive, particularly in the present climate. Do
those responsible have no shame?
I am aware that banks are now businesses, but must this mean the
concept of service has to be abandoned is such a blatant manner?
Were I to read this in a novel I would be forced to conclude that
the author had absolutely no sense of reality. That I am having to
protest is the stuff of nightmares.
Ann Newman -Cyber Bistro, Port Ellen, Islay
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For Argyll has been in touch with the Bank’s Press Office and has asked for a statement on the its thinkng and on its current position. We understand that this will be available tomorrow.
When we called the Press Office we had a significant insight into just what the island’s difficulties will be if they are left to the devices of an Edinburgh-based Call Centre. The first Press Officer to whom we spoke had clearly not heard of the issue and had not heard of Islay itself nor even seen its name written down. He could not spell it and, when we spelled it out, found it so unfamiliar that he repeated the letters in the wrong order. ‘There be bears’ – as early maps used to assume of unknown territories.
This does not at all reflect on the person concerned who was quick, open and helpful. It simply demonstrates the distance between the worlds within the world that is Scotland.
We also asked Argyll & Bute Council for a statement on the situation but have been given to understand that it is not a matter on which the Council would express a view – although individual Councillors might choose to do so.
In our view, the Council should not hesitate to express itself on this issue. Should the body elected to protect and grow Argyll as well as to administer it not be expected to have – and to express – concerns on something directly affecting the economy of one of its major islands?
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It is more than difficult to understand a decision that is depriving a rural, isolated community, especially when that community is thriving in hard times! As someone who has had the experience of starting a new business with little previous knowledge of doing so the help and advice I received was invaluable. I cannot see how it would have been possible to do the same if I had not been able to speak to someone with local knowledge of the area and the people. I feel sure I would have found it immpossible to gain the information I needed from someone in Edinburgh, who no doubt would have had to check an Atlas to even find out where Islay is before attempting to advise me on the best way forward! The irresponsability of the Bank of Scotland/Halifax towards it’s existing customers is astonishing and completely disregarding of the needs of possible future customers.
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Banks are supposed to be reducing risk. The local Manager knows us all and knows if a Mortgage or Loan is appropriate, almost before we know ourselves. How is a call centre going to know? How will risk be averted? As a Tax payer and Part owner of HBOS I insist that The Manager is retained in order to keep my investment safe.
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This is a catastrophic decision by the Bank of Scotland for the island economy. Being able to talk to someone who understands the island society and economy, and knows who we are and what we are capable of, is essential to the successful running of a business here.
I have been a customer of the BOS since they first came to the island and feel bitterly let down by the bank taking this cavalier attitude to its customers here at the very time when we are facing a recession caused by the banks, which have been given unimaginable amounts of our money to keep them in business.
Ironically, the effect will be worsened because we are used to having a very skilled business manager here, who must take no little credit for our thriving but vulnerable micro-economy and, I have no doubt, for making a lot of money for the BOS.
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Pingback: Argyll News: Bank of Scotland statement on withdrawal of Islay Business Manager :Argyll,Argyll Bute,Scotland,banks, | For Argyll
The takeover of a solvent but unadventurous BOS by the giant Halifax whose huge failings eventually sunk the combined bank leading to an ill advised merger now threatening to bring down Lloyds means that the interest of small communies in Scotland and, in fact, the Scottish national interest is the last consideration of those who now run this outfit.
“Expendable” is the euphemism used in these circumstances
The half powered Scottish Government and all the Ministers in it have no powers to do anything about this situation.
Go figure.
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The Bank of Scotland eventually gave us a statement on the proposals for their Islay business service. It’s the 21st century’s banking equivalent of the old John Bull Printing Set but you can read it at: http://forargyll.com/2009/11/bank-of-scotland-statement-on-withdrawal-of-islay-business-manager/
You will also find interesting information on the Islay Weblog – which identifies some of the correspondents contributing above – underlining the extent to which the core Islay business community is angered by the Bank of Scotland move. Read it here: http://blog.islayinfo.com/article.php/islay-bank-manager-axed
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As an owner of 2 businesses, established for 17 years on Islay and having a restaurant survive through BSE and 2 outbreaks of Foot & Mouth during that time my husband and I personally have experienced the vital role of our Business Bank Manager – his expertise , local knowledge and astute grasp of local business interaction and the island health & wealth is vital to the safe being of all businesses large & small in this community. To reduce the working support and put further strain on the retail staff who are brilliant but not trained as Islay is, is foolish, short sighted and down right disgraceful. We received the letter of change on 29th October and it took effect on 2nd November, this despite the fact that local knowledge had been speaking of the change since Show week in August. Letters to head office have so far received no personal reply, only the standard letter describing a survey which no business acknowledges taking part in. Where is the basis of trust and respect that a Bank should command with this type of treatment. But then we know what happened to that in September last year when all the truths about bonuses came out, some of which are larger than our trading totals. “Disgusted of Bridgend” hardly seems a fitting end to a letter of complaint but I could be done for libel/slander if I spoke my true mind.
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This decision by HBOS to remove the Business Manager from our local Branch is deplorable. Did they think that the Business Community on Islay could be fobbed off with lies, i.e. the so called survey that suggests we would all be happy with a call centre instead of our well respected business manager to contact? At the recent meeting held on Islay no business that attended had been contacted for their views on this change to a call centre, so I presume that no business on Islay was contacted at all. I chose to use the Bank of Scotland for my business because of the excellent service that I received from the Business Manager and the access we had to that Business Manager, if this is no longer the case, should we all cut and run as HBOS seems to have done from Islay with the removal of this Business Manager?
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In a phone call today Donald Kerr admitted that the survey that had taken place involving 100,000 business (allegedly) contacted in the survey.
NONE of which were on Islay, his new comments are that one of the business advisors has visited Islay and not 1 of the new customers had any concerns about the service.
How can we believe anything this man says.
I have contacted John McFall who is the chair person of the Financial Services Authority
voicing the Concerns of an Island Community, please feel free to do the same.
to
john.mcfall@blueyonder.co.uk>
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For Gus Newman: For Argyll has emailed John McFall at john.mcfall@blueyonder.co.uk drawing attention to the number of informed and insightful comments here from Islay businesses and saying:
‘For Argyll absolutely supports the outrage felt by the Islay business community and is calling for the common sense suspension of the withdrawal of the Business Manager until the matter is resolved to the satisfaction of all parties concerned.
We trust that the Financial Services Advisory Board will use its authority and its position to intervene on this, reinforcing the need for corporate social responsibility on behalf of the Bank’.
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If none of the businesses on Islay were contacted how can Hbos then say that we would all be satisfied with a call centre in Edinburgh? As for his new comment about the business advisor visiting Islay and these customers having no concerns, I find that hard to believe, how many business customers did he actually visit? As Gus says not a man to be believed.
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Of all the difficult trading conditions in which the country finds itself, for this island the decision to remove the Bank of Scotland business manager is without doubt the worst.
We spend our days constantly trying to make our business please our customers more. In every aspect of the business we go the extra mile and are always looking for extra miles that hadn’t occurred to us before. All the firms with which we deal as customers are doing the same thing, except the BOS which has in reality chucked the island overboard. And the BOS is the only one of these businesses that has been given enormous amounts of public money.
On Islay, our bank’s business manager is not, as the BOS thinks, a luxury we can do without. He is a necessity.
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Round 2
Different approach no mention now of the Survey that did not cover Islay
Dear Jamie,
Thank you for your letter to the Chief Executive. He has asked me to respond on his behalf. I’m sorry for the time taken to get back to you since your initial correspondence.
I understand the unease that our decision has caused on Islay and, while this is a matter of regret, I do believe that many of these concerns are capable of being addressed. Our Direct Bank, which primarily deals with customers over the telephone, has been in existence for over 5 years and already over 75% of our Scottish SME customers use the service. We believe that they have been reassured by the professionalism and knowledge of their relationship managers and I would encourage those constituents of yours who are concerned to give the service some time in order to dispel the understandable concerns they have.
Our teams are very professional, and they quickly understand the products and services their customers need to help their business grow. However we are, of course, still happy to arrange a face-to-face meeting with our customers if it is required.
We do listen to the concerns expressed by you and your constituents and we will always seek to provide as much support as is practically possible. However, I should be clear that we do not intend to return full time representation on Islay. The size of the local economy does not support this and we are not the only Bank to come to this conclusion.
I am aware that this is perhaps not the outcome you desire, for which I apologise. Please do get back in touch if you wish to discuss the issue further.
Yours sincerely,
Andy
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Whilst not based on Islay I too have taken the opportunity to right to Jim McFall , and wonder if it is worth writing to Susan Rice who is the cheif execuitive of LLoyds Banking Group in Scotland
Mrs Rice has always been championed and recognised as a believer in relationship banking and I see from a Scotsman newspaper survey in Decemeber 2008 that she has 2 homes one in Aberdeen and one in Harris! whilst Harris is not Islay I wonder if Donald Kerrs customer survey reached the Western isles I suspect not , but atleast suggests to me that Mrs Rice will have a sound understanding of Island communities and businesses and how they operate
I cannot help but think that HBOS/Lloyds Plc has made a serious of bad decisions over a prolonged period and which we as taxpayers are having to pick up the peices and will pay for over the fothcoming years , there decision to remove there local Islay Business manager ito me clearly falls into the same category but cannot see a person who holds up a survey in defence reversing his decision and that whilst I think he will be be feeling the heat from customers, not mentioning GUS ! it maybe also helpful if there is pressure applied from the top down too !
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Comments taken from Maciver letter to Jamie McGrigor (in bold) and answers / intepretations / challenges.
1) ‘I would encourage those constituents of yours who are concerned to give the service some time in order to dispel the understandable concerns they have’.
Many of the customers had the misfortune of being with the Royal Bank on Islay when they
moved their Businesses to a call centre in the late 90s, this caused many problems and I speak from experience as it cost me money and nearly my business.
We then moved to the Bank of Scotland where they had a Manager on the ground I feel this is the only way a business will work from the Islands. we have different needs that a call centre cannot understand.
This is not a concern it is a proven fact.
2) ‘However we are, of course, still happy to arrange a face-to-face meeting with our customers if it is required’.
Being on an Island there is no set time table when problems Just pop up, It can be postal strikes, (cheque due but never arrived) No ferry (documents never went or never arrived)
there are a multitude of problems that come up that a phone call wont fix. we live in the real world not an air conditioned office with a large pension.
3) ‘We do listen to the concerns expressed by you and your constituents and we will always seek to provide as much support as is practically possible. However, I should be clear that we do not intend to return full time representation on Islay. The size of the local economy does not support this and we are not the only Bank to come to this conclusion’.
You have not listened to a word of the Businesses. We are in uproar we have a petition with 300 business signatures on it. That is 95% of your business customers where I come from this is a strong majority surely that has to mean something if you care .
We have been told that after a survey of businesses you have come up with a business relation ship Model. This relationship model and survey forgot to involve Islay.
This move has been pushed onto your customers on islay with total disrespect, to your staff and your customers.
Then you say that the economy does not support it. Islay is probably the second richest island in Scotland (as far as revenue to the government goes)
We are soon to be in the forefront of wind and tidal energy aswell.
We now have a business relations manager from Oban who has face to face contact with 50 islay businisses and also 150 customers in Oban Total 200 businesses
Our local Manager who is being removed due to the size of the local economy oversees
300+ businesses.
I am not convinced with the letter to Jamie Mac Gregor I smell a Rat. The hole is just getting bigger.
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19 November 2009
Reid calls on Chancellor to intervene to save Islay bank manager
Speaking in the House of Commons today, Alan Reid MP called on the Chancellor to intervene to save the Islay Bank Manager post which the Bank of Scotland are axing.
The exchange between Alan Reid MP and Leader of the House Harriet Harman was;
“Mr. Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD): Can we have a debate on the responsibilities of banks in which the Government are the main shareholder to support small businesses? For example, the Bank of Scotland has withdrawn the post of business relationship manager from its branch on the island of Islay, causing widespread anger among businesses on the island. A manager based on the mainland will never understand the unique circumstances of an island economy. Surely the Chancellor, as the main shareholder in the bank, has a responsibility to ensure that it services businesses throughout the country, so will he intervene in that case?
Ms Harman: I suggest that the hon. Gentleman take the opportunity to raise this matter with the Treasury Minister who will be opening the debate on Thursday 26 November. Of course it is important that all our banks serve their communities, wherever they are.”
Speaking afterwards Alan Reid said;
“Having rescued the Bank of Scotland with billions of pounds of taxpayers’ money, the Chancellor, the Bank’s main shareholder, must ensure that it services all communities in the country. That means reinstating the Islay manager. Many businesses on Islay have contacted me to say how worried they are that someone in a remote bank call centre will not understand their business, and so their business will be deprived of badly needed support from the Bank. I am pleased that Harriet Harman agreed with me that banks must serve their communities, wherever they are.
“I will be raising this again in the House of Commons next Thursday when the House debates the economy and business. I hope that the Chancellor will listen to the Islay business community and instruct the Bank to reinstate this manager’s post.”
Alan Reid has also tabled a House of Commons Early Day Motion which reads;
“That this House notes the decision of the Bank of Scotland to remove the post of business relationship manager from its branch on the island of Islay; further notes the strong concern expressed by the island’s business community that managers based on the mainland will not have the same understanding of the island’s people, businesses and economy as a manager based on the island; and urges the Bank of Scotland to reinstate this post.”
It has attracted the support of 27 MP’s so far.
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Pingback: Argyll News: Islay business banking crisis: updates from Mather and McGrigor :Argyll,Argyll Bute,Scotland,banking, | For Argyll
Look what I found on the Bank of Scotland Website, written by none other than Mr Kerr. Pay particular attention to paragraph 5, doesn’t sound like the service I’m being offered
Donald Kerr, Commercial Banking Director, Scotland
Bank of Scotland
“There’s no doubt that today’s trading conditions are turbulent for businesses – we have first hand experience of having to deal with that. The economic downturn is posing significant challenges for companies of all shapes and sizes – many of whom may find it difficult to see a way through the current climate.
The purpose of this website is to provide support and guidance to help businesses navigate a course through the financial turbulence. Here you will find dedicated guides, expert guidance and real life business stories that give many examples of the support we can provide, including several new initiatives which could prove invaluable to you in these difficult times.
That specialist support is not something new for Bank of Scotland. Building long-term, through-the-cycle relationships is at the heart of our strategy. What is new is that we can now provide that support with the unprecedented power of the Lloyds Banking Group behind us.
That strength allows us to play a powerful role in helping businesses to prosper through the downturn and emerge stronger for the upturn. We are working to ensure we have the capacity and expertise to respond to business needs in tough times.
Our Relationship Managers are the face of Bank of Scotland and take the responsibility that comes with that very seriously. As always, the support they provide is driven by the needs of our customers. That’s why we want to work more closely with businesses like yours, to make sure that we understand the risks you face and help you to manage them.
In turn, we want you to be open about those challenges so that together we can build solutions that work. Your success is the basis for everything we want to achieve. I firmly believe that it is businesses like yours that will play a key role in reversing the recession.
At Bank of Scotland we are delighted to be able to go back to banking again and using that expertise to play a valuable supporting you.”
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REPLY TO Andy McIver at lloyds bank from Jamie McGrigor.
Please see Jamie’s reply to Andy MacIver:
Dear Andy,
Thank you for getting back to me about the situation on Islay. You are quite right that your letter is not the answer which I or my constituents desired and I find it very disappointing that the Bank has already made up its mind to remove their local bank manager from Islay.
Since this will send shudders through the local economies of many smaller remoter regions of the UK and especially Scotland, can you tell me what size the local economy has to be to support a local manager. It appears to me that nothing on Islay has changed; what has changed is the attitude of the Bank of Scotland, the Bank which I remember liked to say yes!
I realise that the Bank wishes to get back to a position where it can actually pay dividends to its many shareholders but I would have thought that dismemberment of the infrastructure will be an option which will only make people inclined to take their custom elsewhere. I have given you the other arguments for the importance of Islay including the fact that it provides such an enormous amount for the UK Treasury and entreat you once again to reconsider your decision in this case.
Andy, thank you for your time and I look forward to a reply from yourself and the Chief Executive.
Kind regards,
Jamie.
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Very well put Gus, as you have said you have the support and backing of many of the islands businesses and also charitable organisations as well, Re-JIG fall into both categories but have already been adversely affected by the removal of the islands manager before he actually finished. We no longer qualified to see him to ask for advice for the future banking needs of Re-JIG.
This will only get worse, as you say experience of a call centre approach is never satisfactory, before I moved to Islay my business banking with Lloyds resulted in a “new” business relations manager every time I called.
Lets hope we get some action and they see Islay as being more important than an extension of Oban.
Dave Protherough – Project Manager Re-JIG, Islay’s Recycling Charity
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Jim Mather Keeps the pressure up, and it looks like we are not the only unhappy customers.
Gus,
Many thanks for this – it is much appreciated.
I have had such a response from Donald Kerr and have now escalated the issue to Susan Rice – who has yet to reply.
I am seeing the whole banking sector in Scotland on Tuesday – and in the meantime, I am sharing this with Douglas Cowan in HIE, who has told me of similar issues in Lochaber and Skye.
For me there is an issue of Corporate Social Responsibility here and my belief that our banking sector has an obligation to provide banking services ( as a sector ) to all parts of our economy.
We will keep the pressure up and see where that takes us.
Regards
Jim
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Dear Mr Kerr,
Thank you for your letter of the 20th of November replying to my letter to the CE in respect of banking concerns on the island of Islay which is one of the many inhabited islands within my region of the Highlands & Islands.
With great respect, I feel that Islay and similar islands off the west of Scotland are different from mainland communities. You emphasise that you are listening to the concerns expressed by me and my constituents and are currently assessing whether any further support is appropriate for the Highlands and Islands, I do not feel that a broad brush solution is appropriate to an area with so many communities of different kinds. If you cannot meet your bank manager in Islay face to face it requires a journey to the mainland which is extremely costly. Will the Bank be paying its customers’ fares in this respect? It is also time consuming. Local knowledge is very important as is the feeling that loyal bank customers are being listened to. It does not appear that many, if indeed any, Islay SMEs were questioned by the organisers of the survey used to arrive at conclusions which are obviously not acceptable to constituents on Islay. Had you done a survey in Islay I think the number of complaints would certainly not have been very small but judging by my postbag, very large. As I have said before I suspect this island, with its nine distilleries, generates more income for the UK Treasury than any other island in Scotland and possibly the UK. It seems absurd that those who live and work there cannot have the services of a local bank manager. I hope I am not being obtuse but that is the way I see it and I have to tell you that the Bank is building up bad feeling and losing the respect of many of its loyal customers. I understand the current difficulties faced by the Bank and the wish to put the bank back into a position to pay dividends to its share holders but I entreat you to look at reversing your plans to leave Islay without a local manager of the Bank of Scotland.
Thank you for your time in this matter and look forward to your reply.
Kind regards,
Jamie McGrigor MSP
—–
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Gus,
I found them still to be in a difficult place, worried about the conflicting signals they are geeting from Westminster in terms of simultaneously being asked to lend and support business and at the same time restor their own balance sheets.
In the light of this – and the potential we identified today, I will make a new overture to Susan Rice and Archie Kane re the Ileach situation which is replicated in other placed on the West Coast.
Regards
Jim
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Having seen Mr Kerr’s (dated 20 November 2009) reply to Jamie McGrigor’s letter of 9 November 2009.
Paragraph 2 to 7 are identical to a letter Alan Reid MP dated 9 November 2009. The same letter was sent again to Alan Reid MP on 17 November 2009. Hm…It seems that the Mr Kerr now has a standard response to every letter he recives about this matter?
We had a meeting with our new Business Relationship Manager last Thursday. He is plesant enough chap. It did not fill me with confidence; he will not be making any decisions about our banking needs which will still be done by a faceless and nameless person sat in front of a computer in an office somewhere far away from where the action is.
The conversation also revealed a number of clear contradictions in the statements issued by Mr Kerr and those made by our new BRM. Not sure they are even in the same church, let alone singing the same hymn.
We will certainly be raising these queries with Mr Kerr who promised to telephone us either last Monday or Tuesday. He has not yet done so, but we hope he will call us today.
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Just to let you know that my emergency motion to the Council today was agree unanimously . the motion was:
That Argyll and Bute Council resolves to contact the Bank of Scotland as a matter of urgency regarding proposals to remove Business Banking Advisors from remote and rural branches in Argyll and Bute, recognising that any such removal will have a detrimental effect on small businesses in those communities, with a subsequent negative impact on already fragile economies, and that the Council requests that any such proposals be urgently re-considered in light of these expressed concerns.
I also attach letter I sent last week.
Robin Currie <>
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Alan spoke today in Parliament. The following has been taken from the parliament website http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmtoday/cmdebate/19.htm#spkr_1
Work your way through it! We’re on in paragraph 8!
Apparently the bank have decided (in response to the campaign) to put a dedicated team in place to deal with customers in the Highlands and Islands. Am I missing something or is that not what they were going to do all along? Would that be a “dedicated team” based in Edinburgh?
4.41 pm
Mr. Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD): The main theme of my speech will be a common theme today: the banks and the problems that many of their customers in small and medium-sized businesses face.
In a short space of time, the banks seem to have gone from one extreme to the other—from excessive risk-taking to excessive caution. We all have companies in our constituencies coming to us with the same story. They have a good sound business, a good track record and plenty of orders, but when they try to raise money from the banks to see themselves through the recession they are either turned down flat or, if money is offered, it is offered at a very high interest rate with a large arrangement fee and often demands for high levels of security for any loans that are offered.
Another common theme is complaints from small businesses that the cuts in the base rate are not passed on by the banks to individuals or to business customers. Getting lending moving again at reasonable interest rates is important, because although we are, I hope, starting to come out of the recession, there will still be difficult times ahead for businesses. For example, the Government’s plans are to reverse the VAT cut shortly and many of the other schemes to help businesses will also come to an end.
I remind the Government that when they reduced VAT last year, two sectors did not benefit from that cut because fuel duty and alcohol duty were put up to cancel it out. Both sectors are of importance in my constituency. Fuel duty increases penalise my constituency because we must, out of necessity, drive long distances. I shall return to a theme that I have raised often in Finance Bill debates and urge the Treasury yet again to consider making use of the EU derogation that allows countries to levy lower rates of fuel duty in remote rural areas. If the Treasury could take advantage of that EU derogation and levy a lower rate of fuel duty at filling stations in the remote parts of the highlands and islands, that would contribute greatly to the local economy. It is important to remember that people in the highlands and islands face higher fuel costs as well as having to travel long distances, so the price of fuel is very important.
As far as alcohol duty is concerned, I much preferred the policy of the previous Chancellor to that of the present Chancellor. The previous Chancellor, during his long tenure in the post, had a policy of freezing the duty on spirits while allowing that on beers and wines to go up in line with inflation. The alcohol duty on spirits is far higher per unit of alcohol than that on beers and wines. Surely, if alcohol is taxed for health reasons, the only logic is that it should be taxed at the same rate per unit of alcohol. I urge the Chancellor to revert to the policy of his predecessor and freeze the duty on spirits. Whisky distilleries are major employers in my constituency, providing jobs on remote islands where other work is hard to find. I therefore hope that the Chancellor will listen to that advice.
As I said earlier, small businesses still face a difficult time. The banks that were bailed out by the taxpayer with eye-wateringly large sums of money should have a duty to help small businesses through these difficult times. Nationally owned banks should act in the national interest, and the Chancellor is the main shareholder in several banks, having a controlling interest in some and a substantial holding in others. When the Ministers sums up the debate, I hope that he will tell the House what instructions the Government have given to the banks in which they are the main shareholder.
I sincerely hope that those banks have not been told by the Government that their sole duty is to maximise their profits, and that they have also been given a duty to help solvent British businesses through the recession. I do not mean by that that they should encourage risky lending, but there are solvent companies with good prospects and good track records that need loans to help them through these difficult times. Banks with a substantial Government shareholding should consider the needs of the entire economy, and not just focus on maximising profits.
I shall give an example from my constituency that involves the Bank of Scotland, which is now part of Lloyds Banking Group and is 43 per cent. owned by the Government. The bank decided recently to withdraw all but one of the business relationship managers from its branches in my constituency, even though local managers living in the remote communities know them in a way that business management teams located in Edinburgh, for example, could never match.
One of the affected branches was on the island of Islay. The decision to remove the business manager there has caused great outrage and concern among the island’s business community, which will now be served by a manager in a business team based on the mainland. I am in full agreement with the members of that community that a manager and a team based on the mainland will never understand the special circumstances of Islay’s economy as well as a manager who lived there would, and I back their campaign to reinstate the post on the island.
To the bank’s credit, it has amended its plans in response to the campaign, and there will now be a dedicated team for business customers in the highlands and islands. That is a welcome step forward and an improvement on the original proposals, but I still think that the mainland-based team will not have the same knowledge of Islay’s economy as a manager living there would. That is an example of how banks with the taxpayer as their main shareholder should look to support local communities. I hope that Ministers will take this issue up with the Bank of Scotland and urge it to reinstate the post.
Another way for the Government to help both individuals and small businesses would be to establish a post bank, which would have 10,000 branches throughout the country. I was pleased with the announcement about the post bank that the Prime Minister made at the Labour party conference, but I have been disappointed with the slow progress since then.
Post offices are still closing, and two have shut in my constituency since the end of the planned closure programme. As well as helping individuals and small businesses with their banking, a post bank would also help to rescue the rural post office network. I hope that the Minister summing up the debate will have progress to report on the post bank proposal.
As well as supporting businesses through the recession, the Government should also be looking at investing in the infrastructure that the country needs so badly. Infrastructure investment is needed in school buildings, public transport, broadband provision, the national grid and so on. We need a mechanism for reducing the cost of capital through Government guarantees, while at the same time tapping into private savers’ demands for long-term investment. That is why I support a UK national infrastructure bank, and I hope that that it is an idea that the Government will also support.
I was very disappointed by the Supreme Court decision yesterday that the banking practice of imposing unfair overdraft charges on individuals was within the law. I was disappointed that the court sided with the banks in that judgment and I hope that the Government will soon introduce legislation to outlaw those unfair charges.
I endorse what the Chairman of the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee said earlier about the need for a supermarket ombudsman. Such a post is badly needed to help small businesses and consumers, particularly in the dairy industry where there is a huge gap between the farm-gate price for milk and the price the consumer pays at the supermarket. I hope the Government will accept the Competition Commission recommendation and set up the post as soon as possible.
I look forward to the Minister’s response. I hope he will tell us what instructions the Government have given the banks in which they have a major shareholding, so that banks can help British businesses through the recession, rather than simply maximising profits.
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Jim Mather had a meeting with Susan Rice comments below
Dear Gus,
Apologies for the delay, I have only just got clear of the backlog of woek that piled up as a result of earlier meetings.
As discussed, I met Susan Rice – who had read all the bacground material and seen the Islay petition and was quick to state that she “didn’t want a degradation of service” for banking customers on Islay.
She was also at pains to say that this planned change was not about Islay or island communities but rather the development of a model that was working well elsewhere, where she claimed other customers were happy with the service.
She reiterated that they would assign a relationship manager to Islay business customers and while most interactions would be by phone and internet, there would be a presumption that the relationship manager could be regularly on Islay in response to customer needs.
Her objective was that the same service would be delivered in a smarter, slicker way, with face to face potential as required – with the caveat that she would react if it was felt that “anything was missing” and that the Bank was adamantly “not pulling out”.
In other words, she is saying she will keep a close eye on how this “new model” pans out and will listen to any issues that arise.
She also voiced an enthusiasm to work with Argyll & Bute to see if we could broker a tighter form of support from the ranks of the banks, accountants, lawyers, HIE, Argyll & Bute Council and the new Business Gateway service that shares premises with HIE in Kilmory.
We now have her attention and I suggest that we use this avenue of communication to keep her posted on the view from Islay.
Regards
Jim
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I dont think that Susan Rice has been kept up to date fully about the Banking situation
on Islay, and how important it is to the Island.
I would ask all those who have written letters to Mr Kerr to do the same to Susan Rice, we have had some horror stories regarding the call centres. and problems people have been having, if you have had hassle and are still not happy it is not going to get better, please send your views and comments to.
Susan Rice and also e mail her PA whose address is below
Susan Rice
Chief Executive
Lloyds Banking Group
The Mound
Edinburgh
Email of her PA is: Mary.Neilson@LloydsTSB.co.uk
Regards
Jim
Jim Mather MSP
Argyll & Bute
Minister for Enterprise, Energy & Tourism
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There are two new stories now published on this issue:
One is our analysis of the underlying situation behind our MSP, Jim Mather’s experience with Susan Rice (text posted by Gus Newman above) – http://forargyll.com/2009/12/mather-gets-no-change-out-of-rice-at-the-bank/
The other is on the recent fortunes of the less than stellar but still potent Ms Rice; a letter Jamie McGrigor MSP has written to her; and a mmotion unanimously accepted by Argyll and Bute Council on the matter, proposed by Councillor Robin Currie (text posted above) – http://forargyll.com/2009/12/mcgrigor-writes-to-demoted-rice-on-bank-of-scotlands-islay-debacle/
Robin Currie is to be congratulated for having got the Council to move on this. Its initial response when we approached it on what Islay businesses were facing was that it would not be getting involved as the matter was outside its responsibility – which was shamefully feeble. Good to see Mr Currie getting its corporate red corpuscles on the go.
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I am beginning to wonder, from the responses to our MP’s and MSPs’ efforts on the island’s behalf, whether the Government might (just might) be saying one thing to the banks in public: “support businesses to get us out of recession”, and quite another in private: “grab what you can in the immediate short-term”. Hence the conflicting signals from Westminster quoted by Jim Mather.
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Another faceless reply, I think it is time to change banks, as you cannot trust a bank that does not care or does not listen to its customers.
Angus Newman
StormCats
Surnaig Farm
Surnaig House
Lagavulin
Isle of Islay
PA42 7DX
18th December 2009
Dear Mr Newman,
Thank you for your letter about the loss of the Business Relationship Manager on Islay which I received via email on 2nd December. I have also received an email forwarded by Jim Mather MSP on 1st December.
I appreciate you writing to me to outline your concerns with the Direct Bank model that has been put in place on Islay. The Direct Bank is not intended to reduce services to our customers on Islay. The service is being delivered in a different way, and I am sorry to hear that initial contact with you under this model has been far from satisfactory.
I can understand how unsettling it is when a new service is introduced and there is confusion over who it is that is supplying that service to you. I understand that all of your business interests are now being dealt with by Alan MacLeod and I hope this has gone some way to alleviating your concerns with the new model.
The model adopted on Islay has been in use for over five years in other parts of Scotland and our overwhelming experience is that the model works well for our SME customers.
I believe that the Direct Bank model will work well on Islay if it is given time. I will also personally keep a close watch on how it is operating.
Sincerely,
Susan Rice
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Utterly pent articles, regards for information. “The bravest thing you can do when you are not brave is to profess courage and act accordingly.” by Corra Harris.
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